Yet another example of how silly the Bible is...

by Abaddon 82 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • RunningMan
    RunningMan

    For those who claim that the Bible speaks only of a local flood, I would like to invite you to actually try reading the book:

    So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the ground, man and beast and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them." - Genesis 6:7
    And God said to Noah, "I have determined to make an end of all flesh; for the earth is filled with violence through them; behold, I will destroy them with the earth - Genesis 6:13
    For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall die - Genesis 6:17
    For in seven days I will send rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground." - Genesis 7:4
    And the waters prevailed so mightily upon the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered; the waters prevailed above the mountains, covering them fifteen cubits deep. And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, birds, cattle, beasts, all swarming creatures that swarm upon the earth, and every man; everything on the dry land in whose nostrils was the breath of life died.
    He blotted out every living thing that was upon the face of the ground, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the air; they were blotted out from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those that were with him in the ark. - Genesis 7:19-23

    The story makes no sense unless the flood is global. Heck, why even bother with an ark if the flood is only local. The animals could just move to higher ground.

    The point of the matter is that God put his name on a book of fantasy, and swore to humans that it was true. Jesus backed it up. We now know that there was no global flood. Therefore, God and Jesus are not particularly reliable sources.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Abbadon,

    I'm also having a laugh at people who will accept the bits of the Bible they know are false as allegory/etc. (rather than Bronze-age understandings of the world), but are equally happy to accept things that cannot be proved false due by assumption true; as I have pointed out, a god allowing a book with such an important message to be full of so much rubbish compromises the believability of the rest, which is illogical.

    Your assumptions of it being illogical and rubbish, maybe due to not understanding the purpose of Scripture??? It's purpose is not to provide proof of God's existence, by relating scientific knowledge, that is far advanced of the concepts of the people to whom the word was originally spoken.

    The first five books of the Bible, form the written contract, between the Isrealites and Yahweh. While Abraham worshipped the Lord, that cannot be said of the Israelites in general, they were for the most part polytheist(pre-national). The book of Genesis establishes status. Yahweh is portrayed in the poetical genera, as the creator of all things, and alone to be worshiped. The first three chapters of Genesis help establish clearly in the mind and concepts of the Idol worshiping Israelites, the status of Yahweh as creator, and everything else as creation. Since the Israelites as well is all the nations around them worshiped many parts of the creation as different god's,, in order to enter into the Law Covenant, or contract, they had to understand, as Moses stated "Yahweh is one" that he was the only true God, and everything else demoted to the status of creation. This was no small task, since polytheism was everywhere during that time the Law covenant was given to the Israelites. The poetic narrative of the first three chapters of Genesis, which describe God in anthropomorphic terms, are clearly poetic in nature, not meant to relating scientific knowledge, the purpose first three chapters of Genesis is not to give accurate history of the developments of creation, most assuredly it is not written with scientific language, that is common to our 20th-century, but in poetic metaphor, commonly used, during that time the Law was given to Israel.

    To expect the Bible to answer scientific questions about creation, is inappropriate, and leads many fundamentalists, holding to a position that is untenable, and in my opinion, shows a lack of real understanding as to the purpose of Scripture. This of course in no way endangers their salvation.

    the Bible in general is just what you'd expect; a flawed historical account of a people with added made-up bits.

    The Bible does contain a prehistory of the nation of Israel, that is not altogether accurate according to our 20th-century way of explaining history. But the fact that there is such a thing as Biblical archaeology, where the Bible is used as a guideposts, in its discription of some of the history of the near East, should atleast taken into account, in forming one's opinon of the biblical account. Biblical archaeologist, according to my studies seem to feel that the history in Genesis starting from Abraham at the 12th chapter to be very accurate, that is according to archaeological excavations in Mesopotamia and the near East. Whereas chapters one to 11 seem to be covering great lengths of time, with less accuracy for details.This of course is common in ancient literature. There seems to be no consensus however as to how the information was obtained or compliled in forming the book of Genesis, espesially the early chapters, but the fundamentalists on the other hand seems to have it all nailed down(joke), and is very sure that it was compiled by Moses under strict control of God's spirit which would not allow for even the slightest error. These of course are speculations, and must be viewed as such. Perhaps archaeologist as they continue to be granted permission to dig into sites that are currently off-limits to them, perhaps then more information will become clear. I must say that many archaeologists have a deep respect for the Bible and its accounting of events. Although I wouldn't value the opinion too greatly a fundamentalist archaeologist because he has a peculiar way of interpreting information that has to be along the partyline. Where as others not so black and white in their veiws seem to be much more reputable.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Derrick,

    The Flood account in Genesis, can not rightly be interpreted as global. One has to be reasonable, and realize that Noah or whoever wrote genesis had no idea what the "earth" was. When the ancient book of Genesis speaks about the "earth" it is speaking of dry land
    That's plausible, but it would make no sense for God to instruct Noah to build such a huge vessel, gather two (or seven) of every kind of animal and hole them up for a year for a local flood. Unless of course that part is allegorical as well, but that's almost indistinguishable from the story being completely made up.

    I think archaeologist and geologist confirmed that Mesopotamia has suffered several floods, and at least one catastrophic one. Mesopotamia is a flatland that is trough like in nature. If information that was compiled in the book of Genesis, about the flood came from Noah, why would we expect Noah to know anything about the Earth real size and geometric shape? This is well over 4000 years ago, clearly such knowledge was not in existence at the time. It was indeed a gigantic flood, that inundated a large portion of Mesopotamia, and ark of that size seems to be appropriate, it would not be necessary for absolutely every species to be account for in the ark. I don't necessarily hold to all the details in the flood account to be historically accurate, but generally true. For this was not the purpose for which it was recorded. My faith is not altered in God's word. For it is clear scientific accuracy was in no way the common form of communication at the time genesis was compiled. We cannot compare our 20th century form of writting and reporting with ancient form to determine whether or not it is God's word. These were two different eras.

    To even imply that genesis is talking about the whole earth(in our modern concepts), displays a lack of reasonableness. If you are reading an ancient document to properly understand it you have to understand the original audience, and what they thought and how they veiwed things.
    It seems it was the whole earth being talked about. The account makes no sense otherwise. The only reason to believe there was no global flood is that the evidence we have today does not support it.

    Well to you anyway seems to make no sense, according to your rules, that followed the partyline of the fundamentalists interpretation. There are many who have deep reverence for the Bible who view it quite differently, and with reasons that seemed to them quite logical.

    To think that God would comunicate to an ancient people in our 20th century concepts and not their is shows a lack of comon disernment. I thought you guys rejected fundamentalism and all its non-sense.
    Why would ancient people need to be told there was a global flood when clearly there was not? If the ancient people had an incorrect view of the way the world worked, why didn't God correct them, instead of reinforcing their incorrect beliefs my making up stories like the flood legend?

    I'm beginning to think that you like the fundamentalists view because it's the easiest one to debunk(?????)

  • rem
    rem
    I'm beginning to think that you like the fundamentalists view because it's the easiest one to debunk(?????)

    It's impossible to debunk non-falsifiable theories, which is all your interpretation amounts to.

    rem

  • RunningMan
    RunningMan
    why would we expect Noah to know anything about the Earth real size and geometric shape?

    Who cares what Noah thought? Take a look at the quotes from Genesis. Those are God's words. HE should have known the size and shape of the earth.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Run,

    Who cares what Noah thought? Take a look at the quotes from Genesis. Those are God's words. HE should have known the size and shape of the earth.

    Your use off quotes from Genesis, offer no proof, for what you are implying:

    For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall die - Genesis 6:17

    When one reads these quotes one has to go back to the meaning they would have at the original time of their writting, and not at the time of your reading. You are giving it a meaning that suits your purpose, namely to disprove it as God's word. If one were to use a little reasonableness, the meaning would be more clear. Your interpretation doesn't even allow for "idioms" which is natural in all cultures, which to me is very unreasonable expectation, if we can't make any allowance for idioms. To rule out idioms is very arbritrary and unwarrented.

  • Panda
    Panda

    Well, for those of you who have not seen me say this before:

    God is just pretend.

    Men wrote the Bible after release from Babylonian captivity in order to have some sense of nationalism like the assyrians and Babylonians. Many of the stories were taken from said cultures. Including Noah and the flood.

  • RunningMan
    RunningMan

    Frankie, your powers of comprehension are pretty minimal.

    Let me spell it out for you:

    1. The Bible claims that God said he would kill all life on earth in a flood. The Bible states this about as clearly as it is possible to state anything.

    2. If the flood wasn't global, there would be no point in building an ark.

    3. Jesus believed in the flood. So did other bible writers.

    Conclusion: The flood story is a myth, and Jesus couldn't tell reality from myth.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    I think this is related to our subject as it expresses my views on Genesis.

    The account of Adam and Eve I believe, is highly metaphorical, my reasons for this, is because of the scientific evidence which indicate organize civilization existed in the promised land many thousands of years before a literal interpretation of Genesis concerning Adam and Eve would indicate. The scientific evidence is very substantial, and after careful examination, as careful as a layman like myself can make that is. I see no reason to doubt the scientific evidence.After looking at many different interpretations of Genesis, I opted for the theistic, interpretation which allows for the first three chapters of Genesis to be highly metaphorical. This by the way does not show any disrespect for the word of God. Because it takes into account, the purpose for the scriptures being written in the first place, which was not to relate scientific information about how God created, we must not forget that He was speaking to very primitive people, who had no knowledge of science, people who even though they were the offspring of Abraham, were polytheistic, the purpose for the book of Genesis first three chapters is not to relate exact details concerning the creation of the universe and man. But to show that God is the creator of everything and that there are no other gods but Yahweh. God certainly was at liberty to use the common form of metaphorical communication, to explain this to the Israelites in concepts that they understood, this was important for them in order to enter into the "law contract" with Yahweh, we must remember that Genesis is one of the five books that make up law, and is in effect a preamble to the "law".
    A closer look at the book of Genesis, and the anthropomorphic terms used when speaking of the Creator indicate it is highly poetic and metaphorical in content. The purpose of Genesis is much better served, not by our 20th-century use of scientific terms but by the highly metaphorical genra which is superior for conveying the message God wanted to convey in the preamble to the "law covenant".
    In ancient times storytelling was used to convey messages, the story was not the message itself, it was only the vehicle or packaging, the messages is inside the story, this according to archaeologists was the common ancient form of communication, the details of the story did not have to be exact, for that is just the vehicle.
    The message that I get from the story of Adam(adam means man BTW) and Eve is: that God created man a free moral agents and they chose for themselves to turn away from God.
    When you think of it, the very fact that God made man a free moral agent the odds are very great that somewhere along the line rebellion is going to take place.

    Fire away!!

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    the very fact that God made man a free moral agent

    yes, much like chimps and dolphins, and, for that matter, lions and tigers and bears. Oh my!

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