Another generation....

by joey jojo 241 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Half banana
    Half banana

    What an enormous red-herring? Perhaps more than 20 million people have believed the ever evolving teachings of the Bible in the JW manner. According to Pew research, about 20 million still believe this but less than half are active in following through.

    My thought is that all this talk of "generation" is misleading. The statement in the gospels is only about Jesus' generation not any other...and Jesus words did not come true. It's childish nonsense like all prophecy is.

    For goodness sake the Bible is just a book, it is not holy unless you are fool enough to believe it is. Little of it makes sense for the twenty first century and Jehovah's Witnesses, hanging on every word, are living proof that Bible teachings cannot be taken literally nor for that matter do they have any significance at all.

    How can anyone believe that all mankind will be brought back from the dead? This is ridiculous...

    There is a real life awaiting those who give up this stupidity.

  • Ucantnome
    Ucantnome

    1 Corinthians 15:18,19

    In fact, also, those who fell asleep [in death] in union with Christ perished,. If in this life only we have hoped in Christ we are of all men most to be pitied. (NWT)

    Commenting on this scripture in the book Man's Salvation Out of World Distress At Hand(1975 Watchtower), I believe we studied this book after 1975 probably 1976, it says on page 28.

    So much depended upon Messiah's resurrection, and the apostle Paul had suffered so much persecution for preaching it, that if Paul were a liar, then, as he wrote...



    So, too, with our generation in this twentieth century. After all that we have gone through since 1914, our generation would be, of all generations, the "most to be pitied".
    Think of it, though! Worthy ones of this generation of mankind will be saved alive out of the rest of this world distress so as to survive the worst of it and enter into God's Messianic new system of things and not need a resurrection from the dead to life on earth! This is a valid hope well founded on what was said by Jesus Christ..."

    It seems to link what Paul preached regarding the resurrection of Christ with the generation teaching.

    The book's opening chapter and paragraph it asks the question

    How much more will the present generation of mankind have to take of this world distress that has plagued us since 1914 C.E.?

    and then says regarding the length of the generation

    Fewer of us have attained to eighty years of age or more. In times such as these, such an age attainment is very good, according to the age-old saying tht set a reasonable time-length for a generation:
    "The days of our years in this life are seventy years; and if by uncommon vigour they be eighty, yet is their greatness trouble and mishap; for it soon hasteneth off, and we fly away," *
    During those seven or eight decades of our lives, oh, what we have experienced! For good reason, then, the announcement "Man's salvation out of world distress at hand! is good news indeed.


    *written by Moses son of Amram, in Psalm 90:10, Leeser.

    The apostle Paul preached good news concerning the resurrection of Christ. This good news about the generation that my mother heard hasn't proved to be good news.

    After the disappointment of 1975 then the disappointment of the generation.

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Here is the updated image that Kairos posted:


  • TD
    TD

    Fisherman,

    When are people going to realize that Jehovah is a vengeful God, He pays back.

    In JW theology, death is the absolution of all sins, great and small and the only stigma brought forward via the "general resurrection" are those tendencies which made the person behave badly in their previous life. With that one exception, those people are starting over with a clean slate.

    You don't know what you are talking about.

    "And if our hope in Christ is only for this life, we are more to be pitied than anyone in the world."

    Like I said, Christians do not serve God specifically for a reward, but by the same token the clear implication in the lack thereof would be that God simply doesn't care.

    This isn't my own crackpot theory; I'm simply reiterating what Christian theologians, starting with St. Paul have said for nearly two thousand years now.

    And as Ucantnome points out above, JW's have not been shy about applying St. Paul's common sense observation to the "Great Crowd."

    This wasn't a problem when the current Great Crowd doctrine was conceived and formulated, but the passage of time has made it so. It's going to take some serious doctrinal surgery to fix this. --Much more than the word games we have seen so far with the definition of a generation. :-)


  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    PROGRESSIVE WATCHTOWER LIGHT ON “THIS GENERATION”

    In 1968 the youngest of the 1914 generation were 15 years old.

    "Jesus was obviously speaking about those who were old enough to witness with understanding what took place when the 'last days' began. ... Even if we presume that youngsters 15 years of age would be perceptive enough to realize the import of what happened in 1914, it would still make the youngest of 'this generation' nearly 70 years old today." (Awake! Oct 8, 1968 p13)

    In 1978 the youngest of the 1914 generation were clearly not babies

    "Thus, when it comes to the application in our time, the "generation" logically would not apply to babies born during World War I. It applies to Christ's followers and others who were able to observe that war and the other things that have occurred in fulfillment of Jesus' composite "sign."" (Watchtower Oct 1, 1978 p31)

    In 1980 the youngest of the 1914 generation were revised to 10 years olds.

    "As indicated by an article on page 56 of U.S. News & World Report of January 14, 1980, "If you assume that 10 is the age at which an event creates a lasting impression on a person's memory," then there are today more than 13 million Americans who have a "recollection of World War I."" (Watchtower Oct 15, 1980 p31)

    In 1984 the youngest of the 1914 generation were reduced to babies.

    "If Jesus used "generation" in that sense and we apply it to 1914, then the babies of that generation are now 70 years old or older. And others alive in 1914 are in their 80's or 90's, a few even having reached a hundred. There are still many millions of that generation alive." (Watchtower May 15, 1984 p5)

    In 1988 the youngest were babies that were born in 1914

    "Likewise today, most of the generation of 1914 has passed away. However, there are still millions on earth who were born in that year or prior to it." (Watchtower April 8, 1988 p14)

    In 1995 age no longer was a factor in determining the 1914 generation

    Rather than provide a rule for measuring time, the term “generation” as used by Jesus refers principally to contemporary people of a certain historical period, with their identifying characteristics.” – Watchtower Nov 1, 1995, p.20.

    Finally in 2010 the 1914 generation overlaps.

    How, then, are we to understand Jesus’ words about “this generation”? He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation. That generation had a beginning, and it surely will have an end. The fulfillment of the various features of the sign clearly indicate that the tribulation must be near. By maintaining your sense of urgency and keeping on the watch, you show that you are keeping up with advancing light and following the leadings of holy spirit.—Mark 13:37. Watchtower 04/15, 2010 Article: Holy Spirit’s Role in the Outworking of Jehovah’s Purpose

  • prologos
    prologos

    TD: "Much more than the word games we have seen so far with the definition of a generation. :smile: good description!

    V7: these are good reminders, and hidden in these word game changes are actually 4 shortenings of the time wt has available to play with:

    1) the change from general population to anointed : There are record breakers living into their 120s, Frederick Franz lived to only 98 ? a give away of ->22 years;

    2) the change  from normal people to  partakers  made the count start at the generation member's baptism ( before ~  1935), or year of first partaking; so,-lop off another 15 years at best. -37 total.

    3) The change to overlapping anointed , rather than overlapping 122 year gp seniors, would make that -74 years.

    4) By excluding Armageddon from "all the things" that are to occur during the anointed* generation, wt writers took out, shortening it by the heavy, the fun part, the climax, perhaps the denouement too, #. . .> -7 years, because * the last anointed standing will be martyred , called to heaven, raptured,  well before the final battle in order to participate!  and they used to teach that the last partakers would survive into the new world , # if you include the 7 year cleanup. so:

    A repetition of F. Franz gets us close to 2075, the missed opportunities in the games of words could get the wt to 2156 ?, without blinking an eye, or perhaps we see them already winking? it is all a game of heavenly thrones, & words?

  • prologos
    prologos

    What I meant to show is, that

    the "Overlapping modern day Methuselahs" would have gotten the 1914 generation promise to 2154. wait until the inventive wt bean counters switch from $s to generation timing teachings.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Which generation was Christ referring to in Matthew 24:34?

    The Greek word “genea” (pronounced ghen-eh-ah') appears thirteen times in Matthew's gospel. Four times it is used to delineate “one set of parents to the next”. Ignoring Matthew 24:34 for the moment, in every other appearance, including 6 of the instances Matthew places the definite article “this” (houtos) before “generation”, “this generation” (houtos genea), in context, clearly cover the same group of people -i.e. “Christ's contemporaries”

    Mt 11:16 But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children, (the persons then living contemporary with Christ)

    Mt 12:41 The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.
    (the persons then living contemporary with Christ)

    Mt 12:42 "The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here. (the persons then living contemporary with Christ).

    Mt 12:45 "Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself.... That is the way it will also be with this evil generation ." (the persons then living contemporary with Christ)

    Mt 17:17 And Jesus answered and said, "You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? ..." (the persons then living contemporary with Christ)

    Mt 23:36 "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

    Reading Mt.23:36 in context again shows " the persons then living contemporary with Christ are being referred to:

    29. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and garnish the tombs of the righteous, 30 and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we should not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye witness to yourselves, that ye are sons of them that slew the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. :33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of Gehenna? 34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: 35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. (the persons then living contemporary with Christ)

    Mt 24:34
    "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
    What generation was Jesus referring to Matthew 24:34?
  • Fisherman
    Fisherman

    "clean slate" TD

    You seem to imply that one can choose to deliberately mock Jehovah without punishment or cause harm to others without paying a price. It seems to me that Jehovah will fulfill my desire for justice.


    *** w12 9/1 p. 17 What Will Happen on Judgment Day? ***
    3. What will Judgment Day accomplish?
    Those who died without ever having come to know Jehovah God and serve him will have the opportunity to change and do good.

  • prologos
    prologos
    F; "--You seem to imply that one can choose to deliberately mock Jehovah--" Many here wish that indeed there would be punishment for those have "mocked Jehovah" by making a mockery of common sense, by their flip flopping, flapper gasting generation teachings, derailing the lives of so many by railing against what the talking snake story really tells. Sadly, there were no talking snakes, or asses or--

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit