Elders - Law Enforcers or Loving

by Jim Dee 101 Replies latest jw friends

  • Maverick
    Maverick

    I had to digest HS comments in defense of the "good elders". The tread took a turn in an unexpected direction, but treads often do. HS was attempting to be "the voice of reason" in what he felt was an Elder bashing tread. But that is his job, and I am glad he and the other forum assistants are here. That said I feel an important point was overlooked. That of the validity of the Elder arrangement as the WatchTower defineds it.

    I do not question the motivation of the men that "reach out". The whole foundation of their very existance is predicated on a lie. They act as councelors and guilds who have a profound effect of those they "aid". But elders have the WatchTowers agenda superimposed on everything they do and say. This taints and invalidates their advice. They are not truly qualified in the role they have taken on. The damage is frightening. As a class, elders are not in place to help the RF, but to promote corporate policy. HS is too close to the problem to be objective about this. CO's are the true enforcers of all things WatchTower. They can fool themselves into thinking otherwise, but they are simply lying to themselves in our presence. Maverick

  • berylblue
    berylblue
    Elder: "Hmmmm.....We're going to have to put this in your permanent record. You know, you will no longer qualify for Bethel service. Bethel does not accept anyone who has ever taken medication for mental illness."

    YOU ARE KIDDING!!!!!!?????

    Well the GB apparently only accepts those who SHOULD be on heavy duty anti-psychotic meds. Like Thorazine. (No Zyprexa for those bastards....they deserve tardive dyskinesia.)

    hopeless psychotics

  • berylblue
    berylblue

    On second thought, most of the GB already has tardive dyskinesia...

    Tardive dyskinesia is a movement disorder that is almost always caused by medications. This permanent condition is a potential side-effect of long-term treatment with phenothiazines such as Thorazine and Haldol which are often used to treat schizophrenia and other major mental disorders. Antipsychotic medications have revolutionized the treatment of these disorders. Before chlorpromazine (Thorazine) was introduced in the 1950s patients with schizophrenia were treated primarily with electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) and/or kept in state mental hospitals for long periods of time. Phenothiazines such as Thorazine quieted the voices that these patients often heard and calmed their delusional thinking. These medications were hailed as miracle drugs even though they sometimes left patients subdued and passive.

    As phenothiazines were prescribed for longer periods of time a number of patients began to exhibit muscle twitches and other unusual movements. Many muscle symptoms are reversible, and can be treated by adding another medication to counteract the "pseudoparkinson" symptoms. tardive dyskinesia, on the other hand is a permanent condition. It is important to note that many more patients develop some side effects on these medications. Sometimes called extrapyramidal side effects, the milder symptoms include:

    • Akathisia - a subjective feeling of restlessness with a compulsive desire to move the legs or walk around),
    • Dystonias - slow, sustained muscular contractions or spasms that can result in an involuntary movement of either the whole body or individual parts of the body
    • Parkinsonism - muscle stiffness, cogwheel rigidity, shuffling gait, stooped posture, drooling, 'pill rolling' tremor and a masked expression.
  • Sam Beli
    Sam Beli

    Interesting thread, folks. My experiences are more like JT’s, though perhaps he did make unsupported sweeping statements.

    I have known a few (let me emphasize, far too few) JW elders like Hillary_Step. I suspect the HS’ perspective is distorted somewhat. He probably is a kind and caring elder. He probably has a strong presence. His strong presence coupled with his caring approach sweeps other elders along in a positive way; therefore HS’ experiences have been far more positive than what many of us have experienced. At least that is my guess.

    What should not be lost in this discussion is the GB direction to new elders - that they learn from more experienced elders. Here is what often happens – it happened in my case too: new elder (yours truly) accepts appointment with enthusiasm wants to help the weak and afflicted. Older, long-time elder, the one that Bro. new elder should look up to and learn from has a harsh approach, says that Sister Afflicted has had many chances, just isn’t trying and to top it all, she has a bad attitude. New elder, mindful that he has so much to learn and so much less experience, in fact he has no experience as an elder, defers to the approach of Bro. Elder Experienced. Oh yes, he has some doubts about this harsh approach, but he looks around and all the other elders seem comfortable with what is happening, so he settles back in his chair and lets it happen. This scenario is played over and over on issue after issue.

    The most outrageous display of bullying I ever observed was while I was a teenager. Our CO was a nice guy; so was his wife. As far as I knew he was a caring CO. He invited me to have a small part in a demo at the Circuit Assembly. We were to rehearse in front of the DO. The DO was late, so the CO was having us run through our parts. When the DO arrived he soon began to berate the CO in a loud voice, right there on the stage and in front of all of us who were part of the demo. His condemnation of the CO went on and on. I thought the DO was totally out of place in every aspect of the incident. The CO kept his mouth shut and took the belittling. It was my first experience of extreme bullying within the JWs. There would be more.

    One issue that should not be lost in this discussion is the fact that most JW elders, as J R Brown put it so well, are untrained volunteers. Many other religions at least require that their leaders have some training in appropriate skills, including sociology, psychology, counseling, etc. in addition to religious studies. As JT puts it so well, JW elders are often nothing more than cracker men. Some elders are smart, untrained usually, but smart nevertheless. Their smarts can be helpful, but often makes them dangerous. Others are neither smart nor trained. These men can sometimes be the greatest impediments to helpful actions by elders.

    Men who could not "make it" in the "world" can become "big wheels" in the JW community. My own dad is an example of this phenomenon. He is a nice guy, but lacks the know-how it be effective as a leader in the business world where he worked for many years; yet he has been a congregation servant and elder for over 60 years. He is a "society man" through and through. His "Bible" is everything printed by the WTS, though he has a way of forgetting the old stuff.

    One last point I want to make is that elder body conduct can vary markedly from community to community. I have known many elders who were at least tolerable, but many in my experience have been incompetent at best, tyrannical at worst.

  • orangefatcat
  • Flowerpetal
    Flowerpetal
    One last point I want to make is that elder body conduct can vary markedly from community to community. I have known many elders who were at least tolerable, but many in my experience have been incompetent at best, tyrannical at worst.

    I agree with your first statement--and maybe that's why congregations are the same way. I have heard the expression that each congregation has it's own personality, and I have visited enough congregations to see that this is true.

    In my experience, while I have known elders who were tyrannical and heard stories about them, and even experienced one while visiting a congregation, and he was conducting the WT study...just arbitrarily calling on people even though their hands weren't raised, the majority of elders in the congregations I was in, were tolerable and not tyrannical.

    The cong. I'm in now, the elders really are striving to be Christlike shepherds. Maybe because some (3) have had problems in their own families and they can empathize with others who have had problems. I can only speak on what I see..I am not one to run to the elders for every little concern that I have; therefore I feel I have the freedom to live my life without their interference. I have always put people who run to the elders for everything, like people who run to the doctor for everything. My parents didn't live their lives that way and I don't live my life that way.

    I am trying to do a slow fade from the org. not because of the elders, but because of my realization that I have been questioning teachings and beliefs, in my own mind for a loooong time. Somehow, something has always held me back, (my conscience maybe?) from believing that every word dripping from their mouths are to be obeyed as if they were spirit-inspired. Elders are just men, no better than any other man; no better than my dad, who was not a witness. Maybe some of my dad's attitude rubbed off on me. They would come to visit him and try to get him interested in coming to the meetings, and try to witness to him. He knew what they were trying to do and he didn't take the bait. He would share with me what he thought of them so maybe because of him, I was able to see these men as just men. Anyway, however I do the fade, it will be very hard because I know the elders in my cong. would be concerned in a genuine way.

  • orangefatcat
    orangefatcat

    One thought. How many of you who were elders or MS servants were involved in the quick builds of Kingdom Halls or Assembly Halls?

    Need I say more.

    Orangefatcat.

  • Sam Beli
    Sam Beli

    "I am trying to do a slow fade from the org. ..."

    Flower, best wishes to you as you attempt to fade. I too faded over a period of many years. Moving away finally helped too.

  • unique1
    unique1

    I think there are both. I know some elders who are extremely loving and caring, but then there are the others who are the enforcers. These enforcers, usually do find a way to make the other elders miserable or find some fault in the loving elders so they can step them down. It is sad.

  • Flowerpetal
    Flowerpetal
    Flower, best wishes to you as you attempt to fade. I too faded over a period of many years. Moving away finally helped too.

    Thank you, Sam....

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