Elders - Law Enforcers or Loving

by Jim Dee 101 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  hillary_step

  Caleb,

  Blondie made some good points. I think that you are just being argumentative and that was the gist of my post. I can never prove you wrong. Just as you feel compelled to make your point about sweeping statements, I think people are entitled to express their feelings. I don't think that you have the ability to prove anyone else wrong.

  Blondie did make some good points, that is why I read them carefully and commented on them. That is how these discussion Boards work. You accuse me of being argumentative but have singularly failed to address any of the issues that I have made, including those that I took the time to comment on from your first post. Caleb, your thinking is muddled. Please attend to the issues at hand and save the personal counsel for those whom you remotely understand and who need it. For example answer the question, do you believe that most if not all elders are unloving and uncaring? This time keep the red herrings in their tin!

  As to the example you quoted ( individual judgment ) being a sweeping statement, it is you who are being argumentative as you example is logically flawed. Read it again. Presumably Christ uttered that statement - think about it!

  Sam,

  Thank you for your words. As a general comment I would say that my experiences are not seen through rose colored glasses. I have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly among elders from Bethel's onward and outward. It is always easier to remember the more sensational wrongs done by people and forget the everyday unseen kindness’ shown by others.

  My feeling is that the many, many elders whom I have seen over the years have shown kindness and care for others are maligned by those who try and portray an unreality that they cannot and have not quantified on this thread. That is, that most if not all elders are uncaring and unloving. This is plainly nonsense.

  I am not talking about whether elders have the authority to be elders, whether the elders system can be theologically sustained, I am talking about individual behaviors. Think about all the elders you have known while a JW. Were they all unloving and uncaring? It should be a rather easy question to answer. We have seen too many red herrings thrown in the pot of this thread.

  Best regards - HS
• 

  hillary_step

  Flowerpetal,

  In my experience, while I have known elders who were tyrannical and heard stories about them, and even experienced one while visiting a congregation, and he was conducting the WT study...just arbitrarily calling on people even though their hands weren't raised, the majority of elders in the congregations I was in, were tolerable and not tyrannical. The cong. I'm in now, the elders really are striving to be Christlike shepherds.

  Thank you for your refreshing honesty - and good luck with the 'fade'.

  Best regards - HS
• 

  hillary_step

  Maverick,

  I left the WTS some while ago, so I have no axe to grind. This issue, as I note above has nothing to do with the validity of the WTS elder arrangement, which I am sure we will all agree is heavily flawed, but has all to do with personal behavior.

  It seems to be red herring day!

  Best regards - HS
• 

  SanFranciscoJim

  Elder: "Hmmmm.....We're going to have to put this in your permanent record. You know, you will no longer qualify for Bethel service. Bethel does not accept anyone who has ever taken medication for mental illness."

  YOU ARE KIDDING!!!!!!?????

  Berylblue,

  Sorry to say that I'm not kidding. This is the same body of elders who took away a "sister's" anointed status. Here's the story:

  We had an elderly "sister" in our congregation (around 90 years old) who had been a JW since the days of Charles Taze Russell. As her age advanced, she developed Alzheimers. She thought she was back in the year 1914. She used to bring original copies of "Studies in the Scriptures" and other books authored by Russell to the Kingdom Hall. The body of elders told her to stop bringing those books with her, because they were "no longer Watchtower literature, and were now being used by the 'Evil Slave Class'". When she refused, they told her she could no longer partake of the emblems at the Memorial, in effect taking away her "anointed" status. Her husband, to whom she had been married for more than half a century, had already passed away to what she percieved as his "Heavenly reward". For the elders to do this, they in effect imposed a sentence of eternal separation from the man she dearly loved.

  No one, absolutely no one, should believe that they have the right to wield that much power over someone else. This was probably the single cruellest thing I ever saw in the Kingdom Hall.
• 

  Flowerpetal

  Flowerpetal,

  In my experience, while I have known elders who were tyrannical and heard stories about them, and even experienced one while visiting a congregation, and he was conducting the WT study...just arbitrarily calling on people even though their hands weren't raised, the majority of elders in the congregations I was in, were tolerable and not tyrannical. The cong. I'm in now, the elders really are striving to be Christlike shepherds.

  Hilary:

  Thank you for your refreshing honesty - and good luck with the 'fade'.

  Hilary, you're welcome. And thank you. I also want to add that in considering that people are just people in whatever positions or circumstances one might find them in, one also has to consider what background they come from. One elder in my congregation and his wife are from a Greek Island. They are in their '40's. They have their idiocyncracies which are peculiar to their culture.

  When I asked the wife if she had seen My Big, Fat Greek Wedding--she said yes and smiled. She also stated "you have to understand---it's a Greek thing." That statement said a lot, as far as I was concerned.
• 

  Badger

  SFJim:

  That is cruel. And compeletly out of line. I've know a few annoited who some speculated on whether or not they actually were. I always thought annointing was based completely on the personal relationship with Jehovah. If she were ranting and raving while having her faculties completely about her, I could understand an elder's concern. But this is a woman who is near the end of her life, who shared it in deep faith with the only man she ever loved.

  That makes me sick. If I ever personally witness anything like that at my hall, I'll be kicked out in a blaze or infamy.
• 

  SanFranciscoJim

  If she were ranting and raving while having her faculties completely about her, I could understand an elder's concern. But this is a woman who is near the end of her life, who shared it in deep faith with the only man she ever loved.

  Badger,

  She was a quiet, humble woman who faithfully attended meetings. Her only "crime" was bringing Russell-era books with her to the Kingdom Hall.

  In my congregation, we had three of the "anointed", all elderly women. We had a district assembly in Philadelphia one year, and since none of the elderly "sisters" drove, they hoped that someone would offer them a ride. I was the only person in the entire congregation to make the offer, and I was on public reproof! The three elderly women graciously accepted my offer (even though the rest of the congregation was shunning me). They were kind to me, and accepted me lovingly as a member of their congregation when no one else would have anything to do anything with me.
• 

  Flowerpetal

  It seems like the older ones were the more loving type--more tolerant, accecpting. Even my mom, who died in June of this year, who was baptized in 1941, before she became ill, noticed how different attitudes were creeping into the congregations. She often commented that she didn't understand what was happening.
• 

  Gadget

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/56744/1.ashx
• 

  Badger

  The three elderly women graciously accepted my offer (even though the rest of the congregation was shunning me). They were kind to me, and accepted me lovingly as a member of their congregation when no one else would have anything to do anything with me.

  If that's the case, then it's possible they truly were annointed...

  My Ex-father-in-law is a SO and has nearly every publication in the society's history. Is a GB SWAT team going to raid his collection and run him off?