Anti-Americanism

by Englishman 105 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  czarofmischief

  Invade the land of Mecca? I'm a pistol packing flag waving beer drinking SOB and even I went cold when I read that.

  Not possible. Slow corruption through Starbucks... that's my plan.

  SIMON: You aren't seriously angered by U-571, are you? That was a Bon Jovi film, wasn't it? It was made to MAKE MONEY, and it wouldn't have made as much money if it had starred Hugh Grant, Anthony Hopkins, and Ginger Spice. History simply isn't as important as the box office opening weekend.

  My general impression is that people have a lot of problems with American historical interventions in other countries. But when I travel, most people treat me civilly and are curious about where I come from. PEOPLE get along fine, it's goverments that bicker.

  CZAR
• 

  dubla

  czar-

  it was abaddon that was obsessing about u-571, not simon.

  aa
• 

  Abaddon

  dubla:

  now you are making sweeping generalizations with no basis whatsoever.....youre really trying hard to make your point about hollywood, and youre going farther and farther off base with it. first off, since youre so intent on making this point, youre going to have to set some type of standard for it. is this some huge pattern youve discovered (men of other nationalities being replaced by americans in war movies), or is it just this one movie you mentioned (that ive never seen btw, and i dont think it was particularly that "successful" either). what if i give an example of a movie that goes directly against your mold (a war movie that paints the u.s. in a bad light), and was extremely successful.....does that nullify your side of it?

  Sorry I missed this; you should know better than to think I'd run away from an argument.

  You want a pattern? Okay, The Patriot distorts history, We Were Soldiers distorts history, The Thin Red Line distorts history... Blackhawk Down is a doodie; the Sudanese die like video game characters, compare the portrayal of their suffering to the US troops suffering... hell dubla, even Pocahontas is historically inaccurate. There's a film about the Battle of Britain in production that might even top the lot of them.

  All of them distort history or perceptions in a way that leads to America looking better than it did in history, or more disturbingly, reducing the enemy to non-entities. In some cases it's not just distortion but fabrication, America actually having a part in a story when they had none. You didn't answer my questuion about whetehr you thought that was normal, did you?

  I did not say (despite your attempt to portray this) that ALL American movies are vain pieces of jingoistic posturing. But if you can't understand how movies such as those I have listed make people regard the American psyche as rather troubled at times, if you don't think American's would be indignant if the Russians made a movie where they defeated the Germans with incidental help from the USA, then you are kidding yourself.

  America has got to stop blaming people for taking pot-shots at it when they are taking pot-shots at what a reasonable person would think is unreasonable activity. If France made a movie where the French Army drove the Germans from Paris, I would be just as derisive - if not more so - so I ain't being anti-American in criticising that.

  I am just given SO MUCH MATERIAL by America in comparison to other countries, that you, with your belief that America is No.1 or the best country in the world to live in, really feel offended when your home gets criticised, and can't believe that it's deserved.

  Obviously sometimes, it isn't. But to make an assumption that consistant criticism is automatically a sign of anti-Americanism is unwise. It might be a sign that America provokes a lot of negative comment by unreasonable behaviour, and that of course is impossible in many American's minds.

  Look, dubla, I'll tell you a secret; I believe the USA could be instrumental in pulling the world out of a potentially risky period that will historically probably be seen as an unstable period between the end of the Cold War and the establishment of a more effective union of nations that will help the world become a safer fairer place. How anti-American is that? I think your country could be the most effective contributer towards a safe world for our children and grandchildren. How anti-American is that?

  Because I believe it could be even more of a force for good, I get annoyed when I see it going what I think is the wrong way, and find the way American attitudes can alienate other countries frustrating, not out of anti-Americanism but out of my belief that America is very important and has a huge responsibility.
• 

  blaid

  Englishman, I think that patrotism is just something some people try to use as an excuse to be apart of something bigger. Personnaly though, I agree with you, the foreign policies blow...as do the domestic ones, heh
• 

  Abaddon

  bttt for dubla....
• 

  dubla

  abaddon-

  sorry....i was out of town from thursday morning until saturday night, and didnt have access to a comp.

  You want a pattern? Okay, The Patriot distorts history, We Were Soldiers distorts history, The Thin Red Line distorts history... Blackhawk Down is a doodie; the Sudanese die like video game characters, compare the portrayal of their suffering to the US troops suffering... hell dubla, even Pocahontas is historically inaccurate. There's a film about the Battle of Britain in production that might even top the lot of them.

  actually, the pattern i was asking for was this idea of heros of other nationalities being replaced by americans. this was obviously just one movie, and you were seemingly basing an argument behind it. as far as "distorting history" to make america look better, i personally felt we were soldiers and black hawk down both made significant points about mistakes the u.s. made, not glamorous acts.....im not familiar with the thin red line or pocahontas. once again though, war movies in general arent that successful in the united states, in fact they are may well be more succesful in non-u.s. markets, as i showed.....this point alone detracts from your sweeping generalizations about the type of movies that are successful, and what this supposedly says about the u.s. as a nation. you didnt answer my question about successful movies in the u.s. being equally successful in non-u.s. markets.....does this say something about those nations as well? can we judge them by the entertainment that sells there?

  You didn't answer my questuion about whetehr you thought that was normal, did you?

  yes i did, please review.

  If France made a movie where the French Army drove the Germans from Paris, I would be just as derisive - if not more so - so I ain't being anti-American in criticising that.

  i never claimed you were being anti-american, please review.

  I am just given SO MUCH MATERIAL by America in comparison to other countries, that you, with your belief that America is No.1 or the best country in the world to live in, really feel offended when your home gets criticised, and can't believe that it's deserved.

  the strawman is so easy to defeat, isnt it? when did i say i was offended, or that america was the best country in the world to live in? in fact, you must try really hard to ignore specific statements that go against the picture youre attempting to paint.....maybe you missed this:

  its not that i dont like it....in fact it doesnt bother me that there are so many criticisms......it doesnt bother me that there are people who are anti-american either (i actually think its kinda funny that people even waste their energy with such obsessions).

  does that sound like im taking offense?

  But to make an assumption that consistant criticism is automatically a sign of anti-Americanism is unwise.

  i dont think its "automatically" anything. i think (again, MY opinion only here), that people arent that hard to read, given enough of their input on any subject.

  Look, dubla, I'll tell you a secret; I believe the USA could be instrumental in pulling the world out of a potentially risky period that will historically probably be seen as an unstable period between the end of the Cold War and the establishment of a more effective union of nations that will help the world become a safer fairer place. How anti-American is that? I think your country could be the most effective contributer towards a safe world for our children and grandchildren. How anti-American is that?

  that pesky strawman, better knock him out of the ballpark this time. when exactly did i accuse you of being anti-american?

  aa
• 

  Eric

  dubla,

  For gosh sakes, would you quit trying to sharpen soap.

  If you can tell who is and who is not Anti-American just based on their posts, bloody well cough it up and say who, where and when!

  Don't make a claim, then sit there and argue your way out of it. Prove your claim!

  Sheez.

  Eric, fully expecting to read, "if you read what I wrote...I need more detail..." and any of a thousand other soap sharpening excuses.
• 

  Abaddon

  "soap sharpening"

  This is gonna be a favourate of mine; I'm working on a book;

  "Zen and the art of completely disrupting your work environment whilst being considered a productive and valuable employee"

  I find that wild metaphors and similies are a great way of getting people to shut-up in meetings, and "I think we're trying to sharpen soap here" delivered at the right moment can wrap most meetings up so you can actually go and do some work...
• 

  Simon

  The problem I think a lot of people have with America / Americans is this:

  Every county has people who are proud of it and defend it. They will say they love their country and that their country is great. Hell, we even called ourselves "Great Britain".

  Whee I think Americans go wrong is that instead of saying they think they are great ... they say they are the greatest and the best.

  By implication this means that other people and countries are not as good and so people become offended and then point our reasons why America is maybe isn't 'the best'.

  ... and then the Americans get offended.

  Say you have a great country, don't go round telling people that they are not as good as you.
• 

  avishai

  Stacey darling, you are confusing the Sudan with Iraq. I hear that there is a job for a Republican shock-jock whose not too hot on getting their facts straight going at the moment. You interested?

  Nope, your wrong on this one, the clinton administration has bombed civilian targets in Iraq, starting way back at the beginning of his presidency, the first time in retaliation for Saddam's attempt on GW Bush's life after he left office. Check it out! He also allowed the blockading of Iraq for eight years causing thousands of Iraqi's to die, many of them children.