A friend needs some advice...

by onacruse 34 Replies latest jw friends

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  onacruse

  One of our close friends is on the verge of an almost inevitable confrontation with her Dad re: her fading. Her family is very devoted to the WTS, and she expects that she'll have only one shot at presenting her defense to him. She has 5 issues in particular about which she feels very strongly (not necessarily in this order):

  1) Mexico/Malawi

  2) The cross (stauros)

  3) The 2-witness rule as regards pedophilia

  4) Disfellowshipping

  5) The 237 times that "Jehovah" is used in the NWT NT

  I never faced this kind of "duel at the OK corral," so I can offer only limited suggestions.

  We'd both sincerely appreciate your ideas: Other issues that you may have raised that had impact on your folks? Is 5 issues too many for one shot? How would you rate these 5 issues, in order of importance to a JW father? How would you present them?

  If any of you have advice/experiences to offer that you'd rather not post openly, let me know and I'll put you in touch with her directly.

  Craig
• 

  run dont walk

  We'd both sincerely appreciate your ideas: Other issues that you may have raised that had impact on your folks? Is 5 issues too many for one shot? How would you rate these 5 issues, in order of importance to a JW father? How would you present them?

  It's never too many, had a good discussion with my brother (elder) and I brought up over 30 and put him on the defensive the whole time, finally it ended in a stalemate.

  Not knowing the individuals I would not know which order they should go, everyone is different and has different issues, for me it's history, I love talking it with my JW family, 1914,1925,1935,1975, 1995 and soon, it's unlikely we will see the 21st century is still my favorite.

  The one question that gets my family p---ed off is when I say, "Do you really know what you believe in." Not the organization, not brother so and so, what do you believe in, Armageddon ??? death to all who are not JW's ??? end of the world ??? living in the last days ??? heavens doors are closed ??? 1914 ??? Christ returned invisibly in 1914 ??? new light ??? like where does it end.

  The Watchtower is nothing more than a book publishing company that scares people, and unfortunately over 6,000,000 buy into it.
• 

  Simon

  You could add the 1914 coverup to that list:

  Most JWs believe the propaganda that the WTS has promoted that they fortold that "christ would come in 1914".

  Show them books printed as late as 1925/29 and they show that they did not believe it and it's a recent invention, fitting the prophecy (in hindsight) to match some eventful dates.

  On this 1914 date hangs their whole 'authority from christ' doctrine.
• 

  caspian

  Show them books printed as late as 1925/29 and they show that they did not believe it and it's a recent invention, fitting the prophecy (in hindsight) to match some eventful dates.

  On this 1914 date hangs their whole 'authority from christ' doctrine.

  Ray Franz's books are probably the best for back ground Info.

  Cas
• 

  ozziepost

  Ray Franz's books are probably definitely the best for back ground Info.

  BTW how's things, Cas?

  Cheers, Ozzie
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  barry

  I would suggest to not worry about the cross thing talk about things that are really important and you will make a bigger impact. Barry
• 

  shamus

  For me, onacruise, it was the love aspect.

  "my disciples will have true love amongst themselves"

  "beware of ravenous wolves who come to you in sheeps clothing"

  You don't need to be an idiot to not see these glaring contradictions staring at any congregation.. they ARE wolves in sheeps clothing.
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  plmkrzy

  I have to agree with shamus on this one. "Acts" speek louder then words and while you're at it you can turn to the book of Acts.

  If one is "baptized" the discussion will be totally different then if non-baptized relative.

  If baptized, regardless of what his/her doctrinal argument is, the natural reflex rebutal will be: you are being "confused" deliberately by Satan.

  Any strong pursuit would only build stronger barriers, to keep from becoming confused along with the confused one. If you can follow that reasoning .
• 

  Scully

  Actually, going up against JWs with doctrinal arguments is more often than not an exercise in futility. JWs are brainwashed trained to defend strong doctrinal counterpoint arguments with thoughts like "this sounds like apostate reasoning", "anything that is unclear will be made clear eventually" and "wait on Jehovah for proper understanding".

  The one thing that JWs cannot defend are flesh-and-blood examples that contradict John 13:34, 35.

  By this, all will know that you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves.

  Particularly if the person bringing up the incidents is an "outsider" (never JW) or an unbaptized person who has been around JWs all their lives, seeing other JWs as "wolves in sheep's clothing" or being shown as not living up to that one simple standard of what Christianity is, is like a slap in the face that will sting for a long time.

  Love, Scully
• 

  Vivamus

  Well, I think your friend should look into her hearth, and pick the one issue that has made her doubt, and question the JW. Second, I think she ought to talk to her parents, as their daughter, who had a crisis of conscience. Going full force against JW, is of no use. The best she can hope for is that her parents will listen to her, when she speaks from her heart.

  I don't envy her.