A friend needs some advice...

by onacruse 34 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  gumby

  I would like to say that first of all,

  .....there is NO SURE miracle subject or answer you can provide....that will guarantee a receptive ear.

  One of the best ways I have seen to make a witness think about their own faith......is to take out the foundation......that God has chosen them alone as his mouth piece.

  First you ask if you could quote from a few watchtower refrences that you have questions about. Using their own literature cannot be refuted by them.

  Then you show refrences in the watchtower which claims god has had a VISABLE earthly class of annointed followers.....each feeding the next group spiritual food.....hence feeding off one another.....un-interupted since Pentecost, until now.

  Then you show them the refrernce in the' thousand year book' and the 'JW's in the 20th century' old green book, in which it says that RUSSELL....learned his truths from NOBODY. God used him and turned the light on bible truths. He 'INDEPENDENTLY took the bible of the shelf and did not at it through sectarian glasses'....it says.

  I have not seen this argument ever been won by a witness, or not had an impact.

  Gumby
• 

  DanTheMan

  one of the biggest mistakes i see former jw make is to think that somehow if i can show them this proof or this evidence THEN I WILL WIN, please you must be smoking something

  lol @ JT

  Apparently the dynamics of the situation has your friend feeling like she has to provide some justification to her parents why she feels the way she does. I certainly don't condemn her for it, but as others have so well stated, she needs to think long and hard about what she hopes to accomplish here, does she think she can achieve something that in reality is a pipe dream?

  If she does go through with this, I think she needs to be very careful and deliberate in presenting her case as "this is why *I* don't believe in JWism anymore, these are the reasons why it is impossible for *me* to support to the WT org." As soon as it becomes "this is why *you* shouldn't believe in JWism anymore, and this is why it should be impossible for *you* to support the WT org", well, game over, nice try.
• 

  Aztec

  Craig, as someone who has successfully faded I agree with A Paduan. Say nothing. Arguing about doctrinal issues does no good. What I tell my father when he asks me when I'm coming back is "I'm working other issues out right now" or "I'm not feeling very spiritual right now". Even if neither is true, it keeps him off my back and keeps me in touch with the rest of my family. I wish her luck! Tis no easy task to keep active dub family members at bay but, it's easier than dealing with shunning.

  ~Aztec
• 

  iiz2cool

  Making a defense based on anything doctrinal or organisational can only result in one thing - disfellowshipping. If your friend wants to have any relationship with family members, this is not the way to go. Better to just say she's too busy dealing with other matters at this time.

  Walter
• 

  mouthy

  .. Just explain you have searched the scriptures AS THE BROTHERS SUGGESTED & found things you want to examine- as the brothers suggest!!! Like John13 :6 Jesus is the WAY! TRUTH! LIFE! Not the borg. John 6:29 The work of GOD???? Not going door to door to convert folks to WT belief. John 5:39

  "Your are searching the scriptures because you think that by means of them you will have everlasting life ,these are the very ones that bear witness about me,And yet you do not want to come to me to have life..." & then Jehovah? said "LISTEN TO MY SON!!!!" tell them you will let the HOLY SPIRIT teach you as scripture say!...Your sticking close to scripture ( they like to think they are, ) Dont get into a dispute with them YOU!!!! cant change a mind that has been captured!!! Only LOVE never fails......
• 

  Mulan

  I agree with many of the other posters. If you want to fade and not get disfellowshipped, don't get into a doctrinal debate. You won't get anywhere with them, and they WILL disfellowship you.

  When they have asked us direct questions, we say"we have made it a policy not to talk about our PRIVATE beliefs." Dave also told two elders that "if you are going to try and monitor what the brothers are 'thinking', you are going to be really busy".
• 

  Guest 77

  Will it be an exercise in futility? Did we all leave for the same reasons? NO! We all have different approachs when confronting a person/s. For me, actions speak louder than words. Don't tell me you love me when you don't practice it, period.

  With all the suggestions given I think your in the best position to handle your circumstance. Many factors come into play in situations of this nature. A suggestion, be patient and avoid rushing into uncharterd waters.

  Guest 77
• 

  onacruse

  A message to y'all from our friend:

  ************* Thanks for the replies, maybe a little more info on the dynamics will make clearer why I want a few good points to present. This is a conversation I will have with my father only. My mother is unreasonable and a fanatic, and unlikely to listen past the first 5 words, much less 5 points. For now, putting them off with non-committal answers has been somewhat effective. I want to be prepared because my dad and I have always had a reasonable relationship. It just sticks in my throat to let him go on thinking I've left for petty personality issues. Anything I am able to express to him, as long as I remain calm, he will think about. It is unlikely that I will change his mind on doctrine or another subject, but he has been as good a father as a "society man" can be, and as his daughter I at least want to give him an explanation. My only real goal here is for him to respect my decision, even if he can't understand it. I do not recognize the authority of the congregation to summon me to a judicial committee, and will not speak to them about any of my views, so if any action were to be taken, they would have to do all the work themselves without my presence. I won't have this discussion with my dad until/unless the elders come after us, and action is imminent, OR if it becomes easier to explain than to continue avoiding the question with dad. ********** My thanks also to for all your replies. Craig
• 

  onacruse

  minimus, I saw your recent experience at

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/59882/899770/post.ashx#899770

  Lately, we've gotten together with my wife's family and their friends. My wife has brought up that we're no longer going to meetings and "practicing" the religion. I find it very refreshing to explain REASONS why I do not support Jehovah's Witnesses, as a religion. I have mentioned how Witnesses view everyone else of a different religion as "going to die" because they aren't Jehovah's Witnesses. I've explained that Witnesses will shun and no longer talk to anyone that get's disfellowshipped because they are now viewed basically as "dead". I have found that being COMPLETELY HONEST about what Jehovah's Witnesses believe in and TELLING others about is quite liberating.

  I'd really appreciate your opinion about my friend's situation. Craig
• 

  LittleToe

  I would recommend simply continuing to fade, and letting the WTS's foul treatment of you speak for itself. This will probably have more sway to loving parents.

  As soon as you go after anything doctrinal, the barriers will go up. You'll also run the risk of being reported.
  If DF'ed for doctrinal reasons then you'll probably be cut off, regardless of their love, without a second thought. Apostates are deemed worse than fornicators, in their eyes.

  As for winning respect. It's unlikely you'll succeed with mere discourse. I fear that will be a fatal wish that may bring down the relationship with your father. I'd leave sleeping dog's to lie, and let them wake of their own accord.