Adam and Eve.....and Egypt

by gumby 55 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    So if it is the bible that is the only book that tells us of our savior.......and that book is full of holes and jumbled up myths.....then how can you trust in the savior it mentions..........when it is clear(at least to me), that "HE TOO" was nothing more than a copied myth of saviors before him with the same attributes they had.

    If the bible truely has copied older myths......which can be proved by comparing older myths and beliefs........then it's ENTIRE contents comes into question as being a guidebook, and that within it's pages, contains messages that need to be learned by individuals in order for them to have eternal life.

    Gumby,

    I would have to say that you seem to still have that whole jw thing going - "where are the exclusive rules that I'm supposed to obey? - I want to see the credentials"

    There's no robot group to beauty

    "Does not nature teach you?" "He who believes has life"

    If one believes, ie. is of that mind, identifying with Jesus, one already has life - and you don't need to have heard it to already believe it - people have life - but may not know - it's the way they already are, the way they already know/believe things to be about good and evil - spiritual descendants of one who ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    But to eat Jesus is to eat the fruit of the tree of life - did you read about who is in the garden? - the cherubim - those who welcome those who are blessed broken and handed to them - I can identify with them - they have life

    or, there is all that judgement stuff.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Truly, the spirit is upon you! For it can only be by means of the Spirit of God, holy spirit, through Christ... that such a truth as you have stated here could have been said!

    May all those here who read your words... ALSO hear the words of the Spirit and the Bride... as they invite ALL who are thirsting, who are hearing... who are wishing... to:

    "COME! Take 'life's water'... FREE!"

    May they hear... and get the SENSE of what it means to eat of the Tree... of Life... and LIVE!

    Praise JAH... all you people! Let every living thing... let every living breathing thing... let it PRAISE JAH!

    I am your servant... and fellow slave of Christ... to time indefinite,

    SJ

  • Faraon
  • Farkel
    Farkel

    gumby,

    You are a bad, BAD, BAD boy! How DARE you state the obvious!

    If it wasn't for Shelby, you wouldn't have a chance in the now forgotten campaign of life-everlasting-in-the-freedom-of-sons-of-liberty-of-God-and-a-whole-lot-more-bullshit-promoted-by-the-Watchtower-Printing-Corporation. Shelby showed you new nonsense. Ignore the old nonsense and get with the new nonsense!

    Said book is now defunct. But that doesn't matter. When it was in print it WAS true. Just because it isn't true now, doesn't mean it WASN'T true when it was true back then.

    This is all Bible-Based(tm). Truth is fluid. Get use to it. No truth is absolute. Genuine truth (that is to say, "Present Truth(tm)") rolls out of Brooklyn daily. And "Today's Truth(tm)" is tomorrow's Apostacy(tm). Get used to that, too. This is God's very simple way of dealing with mankind's many problems: confuse the shit out of them. And then kill all of those who cannot figure that God has confused the shit out of them.

    This is known as "God's LOVING Provision for Mankind(tm)."

    As I said, this is all "Bible-Based(tm)."

    Farkel

  • Mac
    Mac

    I believe that navel lint is the portal to new galaxies!

    mac

    (navel not naval........they don't allow lint in the navy!)

  • bebu
    bebu

    GE 4:25 Adam lay with his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, "God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him." 26 Seth also had a son, and he named him Enosh.

    At that time men began to call on the Name of the Lord.

    Whether you accept the historicity of Adam or not, the Bible shows that pre-Abraham folks around the region shared a common understanding of God. The Bible simply traces the development of man's understanding of God thru Abraham and descendants.

    *****

    As you know, the Muslims believe the Koran to be the exact words of God, delivered by God. Muslims are not to translate or study the Koran in any other tongue than Arabic--it is a pure language to them, and to translate the Koran debases it. (Translations do exist, nonetheless!) To question the Koran is tantamount to challenging God. God is trapped in the paper, it seems.

    The Bible has narratives, prayers, poetry, etc, but the collection as a whole does not discuss itself, but uncovers God. It is not necessarily "scandalous" if there are passages that echo from earlier times in the Bible--nowhere does the Bible claim to originate every idea of God. But thru the collections of writings, God reveals bits of who He is. God can't paint a complete picture of Himself for us using one or two or even one-hundred mediums. And even if one were to memorize the whole Bible, like a Muslim might recite the entire Koran from memory (whether they understand the language or not!), it is forever insufficient. The "word" of God is not a book of paper, but a living revelation:

    COL 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

    It is so easy to wish God to be only 2-dimensional: merely logical, like Spock--who misses emotional and other dimensions (and therefore, incomplete). But if God could be explained quickly and completely with words, you would surely be bored within an hour--and despise him as less than God... and you would be right!

    Here is an attempt to explain what I think: we want God to be completely rational only as we understand "completely rational" to be. We want a completely tame deity; this is a comfort and it's convenient. We can always exactly guess what He might do, and always be ready. We want to KNOW God, but only in that we want to understand something about Him. We long for understanding because we don't feel like we have control, and if we understood God, we'd have control, and maybe, be at peace.

    Yet we also hope and expect to discover a God who commands our awe as when we see babies, catapillars, stars, novas, and butterflies. We want to respect Him, to really worship Him and mean it (if He's there). We want to find Him as exciting, exotic, and as thrilling as sex (which I thank Him for). ...There is a deep longing inside us for this, too, isn't there? We hope, but we are quite afraid of being disappointed (you know: you get to heaven, and there's a tacky neon sign that says "Welcom to he ven"...)

    I do believe that we have the "Awesome" God, not the "Spock" God. Completely understanding God isn't going to happen. but the consolation is that we can begin to "know" God as exciting, exotic, and thrilling, and found (oddly!) in both sides of the paradoxes before us. And this God will be enough to really satisfy us, forever.

    bebu

    w/ 2 coppers

  • City Fan
    City Fan

    AGuest

    The reason there are similarities is LANGUAGE - prior to Babel, the people spoke ONE LANGUAGE

    Really? The account in Genesis 11:2 says that the people who built the tower of Babel "journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there." These people must have been the decendents of Noah whose generations were recorded in the previous chapter.

    Genesis 10:2-4 records the names of the sons and grandsons of Japheth before verse 5 says "From these the coastland peoples spread. These are the sons of Japheth in their lands, each with his own language, by their families, in their nations."

    So according to the biblical account not only did the people of the earth have different languages before babel but they had also spread across the earth.

    As for the Genesis creation account try reading Genesis 1:1 to 2:3 and then stop. Then read Genesis 2:4 to the end of chapter 3. You'll find two different creation accounts. The first uses only Elohim for god and the second uses only Yahweh Elohim. The order of creation in the first story is PLANTS - ANIMALS - MAN & WOMAN and the order of creation from Genesis 2:4 is MAN - PLANTS - ANIMALS - WOMAN.

    Also look at how the second creation story starts at Genesis 2:4 "These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created". The first five words of this phrase are used 10 times in Genesis and always introduce stories about particular families e.g "these are the generations of Isaac". This verse suggests that heaven and earth were deities who had offspring. To the Egyptians heaven and earth were the dieties Geb (earth) and Nut (heaven) who had three sons Osirus, Horus and Set (Seth). The feuds between Adam and the serpent and Cain and Abel were based on the feuds between Osiris and the serpent Set. In the Egyptian Osiris Cycle the god Re is shown bruising the head of the serpent Set.

    The genesis accounts are a good attempt to give a monotheistic view of previous polytheistic creation myths, but verses such as Genesis 2:4 show their true source.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    may you have peace!

    You state:

    The account in Genesis 11:2 says that the people who built the tower of Babel "journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there." These people must have been the decendents of Noah whose generations were recorded in the previous chapter.

    This is true.

    Genesis 10:2-4 records the names of the sons and grandsons of Japheth before verse 5 says "From these the coastland peoples spread. These are the sons of Japheth in their lands, each with his own language, by their families, in their nations."

    Did you notice, though, that verses 2-4 depict THREE generations: (1) Japheth, (2) Gomer/Javan and (3) their sons... "Ashkenaz, Riphath, Togarmah, Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim and Dodanim?"...

    So according to the biblical account not only did the people of the earth have different languages before babel but they had also spread across the earth.

    ... and that Babel became Babel AFTER the confusion of tongues (Gen. 11:1, 7, 8)... and that it became the "beginning" the kingdom of Nimrod (Gen. 10:10)... who was the THIRD generation after Ham (Gen. 10:1, 6, 8; 1 Chron. 1:10 - (1) Ham... (2) Cush... (3) Nimrod...)... so that the languages were confused most probably during the third generation... that of Nimrod... if not, during the second generation (Cush)...

    and... yet, those it was the FOURTH generation... those of the SONS of the SONS... of Gomer and Javan (the SECOND generation)... that "the population of the isles of the nations was spead about in their lands, each according to its tongue..."

    ...so that "the population" that is spoken of at Genesis 10:5... are those FROM the FOURTH generation... yet, Babel came into existence during the THIRD... if not second... generation?

    I bid you peace, dear City Fan... and eyes to at least see... what IS written...

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • City Fan
    City Fan

    AGuest,

    so that the languages were confused most probably during the third generation... that of Nimrod... if not, during the second generation (Cush)...

    Let's just go with your assumptions for a moment. What you are saying is that the tower of Babel was built by Noah's sons and some of his grandsons. Is this what Genesis 11 tells us?

    Genesis 11:2 says "And as men migrated from the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there." According to the bible there was no one else on the earth apart from Noah's family. But there is a problem with the geography of this verse. To get from the region of Ararat to the plains of Shinar they would have travelled south/south-east, Ararat being north and a little west of Babylon. So who were these 'men' who migrated from the east?

    Which of Noah's decendants went east? Well according to Genesis chapter 10 Japheth became the father of the coastland peoples of Ionia. Ham became father to the peoples of Egypt, Ethiopia and Canaan. Shem's decendants correspond to the peoples of the near east including Elam, Assyria and Aram (Syria). We can only assume then that decendants of Shem would have travelled far enough east to be the men who migrated from the east to settle in Shinar. This would have taken many, many generations not two or three.

    This also fits in well with verses such as Genesis 10:32 which says "These are the families of the sons of Noah, according to their genealogies, in their nations; and from these the nations spread abroad on the earth after the flood."

    According to this verse mankind spread across the earth after the flood not after babel.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    What do you make of Gen.10:25, with the earth being divided during Peleg's lifetime?

    According to Gen.11 Peleg (5th Gen. "survivor") wasn't born until approx. 97 years after the Genesis flood, and died 239 years later. This would place such a divison between 97 - 336 years after the flood (abraham being approx.48, when he died - hence it could conceivably have occured in his lifetime).

    Incidentally, Shem was allegedly contemporary with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and so may Nimrod have been (being a third Gen. "survivor").

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