jws hassle 3 yr old

by Blackcat 60 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  teejay

  Well, Six, it looks like your moderate view is in the minority here, but I'm
  going to have to side with you. I'm sorry to have to tell you this but your
  views are identical to mine on this issue so maybe you oughta get yourself
  checked my friend -- thinking like me and all. Then again, you know what
  they say: great minds travel in pairs.

  First, I was wondering… the news article said, "She immediately ran
  downstairs and jumped in her car to catch up with the pair." I wonder if,
  in her mad dash to read the riot act to those two hapless JWs she
  remembered to take her children along or forgot them in the yard, being a
  concerned parent, and all …

  I guess I'm one of the only ones here who talked to kids out in service.
  Well, I confess: I did. I never thought about it being a horrendous crime
  as some suggest. I do recall first asking if mommy or daddy were home.
  And I also remember a time or two over the years when the parents
  weren't exactly thrilled if they happened to pull up in the car or come
  downstairs to find their children being proselytized -- by me. I even
  started a study or two with a teen, but for some reason the study never
  lasted more than a week or two. With this background in mind, I would be
  a total hypocrite to expect JWs (or Muslims or Baptists or Catholics, etc.)
  NOT to try to proselytize my daughter or think they were scheming some
  ugly evil if they did.

  Before anyone gets carried away by telling me what a fool I am, I will
  make another confession: my two-year-old daughter is my life. My reason
  for being now revolves around doing everything that I can to see to it that
  she has a better life than the one that I have had. I take the role very
  seriously. Also, I see myself as her Number One Protector and, like TR, I
  have no problem spending time in jail for the sake of my little one
  (although if I play it right, I should get away with it). If the time ever
  comes, I will not look to the judicial system to affect justice. Since I was a
  kid I always did like the Mosaic provision of the Avenger of Blood/Next of
  Kin. It had a lovely ring to it the first time I ever heard it.

  That being said, my daughter goes to the meetings whenever her mother
  does and that's often. If I had my wish, she wouldn't, but there it is. So
  she's already hearing bullshit. As she gets older my plan is to start going
  back to the meetings to help tune her bullshit meter. She's not going to be
  raised like I was and believe it all.

  So whether it's at the hall, in the yard or at the shopping mall, she is going
  to encounter people, many adults and many ideas. Being the precocious
  child that she is, she's met quite a few people already. 99.999997% of the
  people she meets are going to be decent people with the best of intentions.
  I have no desire to shield her from interacting with them. I will not teach
  her a fear of people or of what they say, whatever it is. Within reason…
  within reason… people are free to say whatever they wish to my daughter.
  We, she and I, will have a very open relationship wherein she is free to
  come to me for explanations. She will have a finely tuned bullshit meter.

  I'm sorry for all of you who believe that it's a crime, a heinous sin, for an
  adult to express basic human interest in children, even if that interest
  includes sharing their view of god. Actually I'm sorry for your children
  and the unrealistic, unreal world you are creating for them.

  Sad to say, sometimes the thought of how I might be viewed by the
  parents crosses my mind when I encounter children. As a result, I am not
  as friendly with them as I might be. I've always loved children so my
  reticence causes me a little discomfort and the children miss out, as well.
  I'm not totally ignorant of the pitiful winds of change and the sick world
  we live in. There's little I can do about that except help my daughter. Yet,
  again, within reason, I will welcome the good intentions of upright people.
  They will be allowed to show my daughter that the world is yet brim full of
  decent people, even if many of the decent ones are a little misguided by
  silly thoughts of 'god'.

  I think the lady in the news article over-reacted and, perhaps without
  meaning to, did waaay more harm to her children than good. I think the
  same can be said for some of the folks here.

  peace,
  todd
• 

  GinnyTosken

  I am torn on this subject.

  My first reaction after reading the thread was, "Would these folks have reacted as strongly if the article had been about two Pentecostal women handing out flyers to invite children to Vacation Bible School?" This has happened in our neighborhood, and while irritated, I didn't want to beat up these women for talking to my son.

  I very much dislike the bus that comes around on Sunday mornings to pick up children for church. It is painted with cartoon characters and looks like an ice cream truck. As I see it, it is my responsibility to explain how this works, just as I've explained that junk cereal is bad for him, even if it comes in a cool box with a prize inside.

  When I was a JW, I spoke to children in their yards and at the door. I often asked, "Are your parents at home?" My intentions certainly weren't evil, and I had no idea I was violating one of the guidelines about strangers, such as those I found on: http://www.safechild.org/strangers.htm

  To me, a lot depends on what the JW women said to the children. Did they knock on the door? Ring a doorbell that didn't work? Maybe the mom didn't hear? As I once ignorantly did, did they ask the children, "Is your mom at home?" Was she busy vacuuming? Did the women give the children a magazine or tract to give to the mother later? I could see myself doing all those things.

  Did the women not ask for a parent? Did the women try to actively recruit? "Would you like to live in paradise some day?" If so, I don't like this at all.

  I am torn because I grew up with a fear of strangers. As I was walking home from school when I was six, a man motioned me over to his car. "Come here. I have something to show you." I imagined he had bought a doll as a present for his daughter and was so happy and eager that he just had to show some other little girl this wonderful present. I walked over to the car window and looked down at the seat. There was no doll; only the man's unzipped pants and penis.

  What is ironic is that I fled from this man only to be helped by other strangers. Back then, stores and offices would put a sign with a red hand in the window to designate a safe place for children. I found a helpful adult stranger, and she called the police.

  This experience coupled with the JW indoctrination about the evils of worldly people led me to distrust just about everyone for the next 20 years. I was constantly wary and on guard at the park, at the beach, anywhere. I envied my friends who seemed relaxed, confident, and secure in their surroundings. I knew perverts and "carnies" (as my mom called the transients who came to town with the carnival) were everywhere.

  I don't know the answer to the dilemma of helping a child to be aware of the dangers in this world without making him fearful and paranoid. I wish there could be some balance. I don't think it was good to be as tense and afraid as I was growing up. I don't want to paint any group of people black. Catholics sometimes harbor pedophiles, too, but I don't keep my son away from all Catholics.

  As for religion, I don't bar my parents from speaking to my son about their beliefs. I've talked with him about my once being one of Jehovah's Witnesses and why I left. I've even considered taking him to a meeting, so he could see what it is like. If I didn't work weekends, I'd make the rounds to many different churches, mosques, and synagogues. If he gets a religious education, I'd rather he get it from me. I'd rather talk about these ideas than censor any of them. I trust that when he is old enough, he will choose wisely.

  Ginny
• 

  SixofNine

  Teejay, Ginny, well said, and I'm feelin' good about your kiddo's future.

  I can just see a six year old Ginny subjecting a pervert to her little Jezziness... Hi mister, is that a penis? (only slightly wide-eyed) I can barely see it, are you trying to show it to me, or did you just forget to close your panties, mister? My daddy has a penish, I reckon it's about average, least as far as I can tell from Masters & Johnson...hhheeeehhee thats funny, huh mister? Masters & Johnson?pphhhfffloott! Hey mister, did you buy this 454 camaro
  'cuza what them kinsey people sez 'bout boys with smaller than average penishes? Ish ok, I reckon it's better really, wouldn't hurt your wife so much? What's your wife name mister?

  Hey mister, where ya goin? I was gonna tell ya 'bout hows ya can't compare when your flaccid and all... Wow, that 454 burns rubber! {snicker}
• 

  Tina

  Greetings All,
  Im with MD and Loves on this one.
  I think it's totally inappropriate to approach children in this manner. I think it's a major boundary violation as well as a lack of good sense.
  I never did it and never saw anyone I ever worked with in fs do this. It was quite understood,that it was inappropriate.
  I'm amazed that anyone would think this ok to do?
  There is a difference between a paranoid fear and a healthy fear that protects one. That is what I taught my child and what I live by. Being 'moderate' would be nice in a 'perfect world',but the reality is we don't live in that kinda place. We have no control over others behaviors,and just hoping that they are moderate is naive and credulous. Crime stats prove this.
  I'm not surprised that JW's would think this is ok,considereing the altered reality that they live in.
  I sure wouldnt want to see a couple strange adults conversing with children. My antennae would be buzzin big time!
  Nothing wrong with having some trust,but when one ponders over the fact that there is a power imbalance between kids and adults,it makes good sense to err on the side of caution.....just my dos centavos,Tina

  Carl Sagan on balancing openness to new ideas with skeptical scrutiny...."if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense,you cannot distinguish useful ideas from worthless ones."
• 

  Seeker

  I was like teejay when I went out in service. Of course I would talk to the children if their parents weren't around! Granted, it was on a much simpler level, and without ever committing them to anything. The most I would do is offer literature, and only after asking if they were allowed to accept it.

  I'm saddened to see the many comments of anger in this thread. I can't speak from experience, so feel free to ignore what I say as the words of an ignorant fool. But I wouldn't mind a bit if one of my children were spoken to by an adult. I would make sure they knew when it was safe and when it wasn't safe to listen to a stranger. But if I'm in the house, and they are too, what's the problem? I won't have my children grow up paranoid. I will teach them to be aware, and to react appropriately and intelligently, but not to fear others. All we have in this world is each other, and I won't turn my kids against people just because they don't know them. From that comes the very foundation of prejudice, and I won't have it.

  JWs in service are sincere and harmless. I realize there are a lot of bad feelings toward the religion in here, and I understand that, but to chase someone down the street is to lose control. If the feelings run that deep, get help. Life is too short to harbor such anger.
• 

  TR

  Six,

  Well then TR, I'll suggest you get your mind right about this matter. What exactly is it if a stranger talks to your kids? You gonna come up and be a tough guy, simply because a stranger talks to your kids?

  Get my mind right? The last time an "adult" tried to engage my child in conversation, the intent was to abduct her! No, not all adults do this, but an adult should be cognisant about the safety of children. Unless a child is in trouble, and in need of help, I won't seek out a conversation with a child UNLESS other adults or parents are there. I will tear to shreads anyone who messes with my kids, literally. Yes I'll be a tough guy.

  So get YOUR mind right and see it from a different perspective.

  TR

  "cults suck"
• 

  SixofNine

  Sorry TR,

  I understand approximately where you are coming from, being a father myself. Still, it seems to me you are not part of the solution by deciding that adults and children just shouldn't interact.

  Folks, for all the bluster, when all is said and done, you're a part of the problem when you show your kids irrational fear and anger.

  Maybe I have the wrong picture, but it almost seems to me, TR, that you think anyone engaging in your kids in conversation is, "messing with them". So what now? What are you gonna teach your kids with that brand of silliness? And honestly, you can play the tough guy, but your really just you, with all your human and legal limitations. Both of those limitations might really prove disasterous for your kids the way you talk.

  By the way, if another adult is not there, perhaps the child IS in danger, and DOES need your help.

  Seeker- I appreciate your perspective, it seems most reasonable.
• 

  Sunbeam

  Hey Black Cat

  I've just read your post about your local paper and realised that you aren't a million miles from me. Does your title refer to your status as a supporter of a certain football team?

  Sunbeam
  xxx
• 

  TR

  Six,

  Still, it seems to me you are not part of the solution by deciding that adults and children just shouldn't interact

  I think you misinterpret what I said.

  I said:

  Unless a child is in trouble, and in need of help, I won't seek out a conversation with a child UNLESS other adults or parents are there. I will tear to shreads anyone who messes with my kids, literally. Yes I'll be a tough guy.

  In other words, If a kid is alone and needs help, I will do whatever I can. I love to engage kids in conversation, I just prefer to do it in front of their parents or other adults so there is no doubt as to my motives. As for MY kids, If another adult engages them in a conversation in my or another responsible adult's presence, I have no problem with that. However, If an adult is conversing with kids for less than ethical or virtuous reasons, then yes, I will tear their heads off and shit down their necks. I hope this clears things up.

  TR

  "cults suck"
• 

  larc

  Six,

  Like TR, I just don't get your point of view. I am not teaching my children "irrational fear and anger" when I discuss real dangers with them. There good people out there and there are dangerous ones, just as there are poisonous and nonpoisonous snakes. With both snakes and people, I would want my children to know the difference, and what to do when presented with a potentially life threatening situation.

  Someone mentioned the good intentions of the Witnesses. This is true almost all of the time, except for the pedophiles in their midst. To coin a phrase, "it is better to be safe than sorry." How about another one, "fools rush in where angels fear to tread."