Well, Daddy-O, let's take a look (and may you have peace...) (how DO you use html here!?):
You said:
:>Your argument in a nutshell is that the Bible was talking about experiencing good and evil rather than just knowing about them as an un-experienced concept, yes?
Yes.
:>If this argument is true then when God says that the pair has now become one of US with the knowledge of good and evil, then God is stating that not only all of his heavenly creation had personal experience of good and evil, but that God himself had personal experience of good an evil at the time he issued his command to the first pair!
Yep.
:>Yet, he stated those words before any rebellion by Satan or anyone else, according to the Bible itself.
So?
:>There is no mention in the Bible of any evil existing at the time of the creation of man.
No, there isn't... at the time of the creation of 'earthling' man, and with respect to the creation of the physical realm and that which was 'good'. BUT... darkness existed before Light, yes?
Genesis 1:1, 2
Did you notice, however, that while it says that God 'saw the LIGHT was good', it did NOT say that He saw the DARKNESS was good? And that, in fact, He caused a DIVISION between the Light and the Darkness? Now, don't FOOL yourself into thinking that this is speaking about the light and dark and night and day brought on by the sun and moon. For this is the FIRST day, and those 'luminaries' did not come into existence... until the FOURTH day.
No, it is speaking about the TRUE Light, my Lord (John 1:9; 8:12), and the TRUE Darkness, the Adversary (1 John 2:11; 2 Corinthians 4:4).
Did JAH 'know' 'bad', before Adam and Eve? Indeed, He did. Because the 'darkness' existed not only before Adam... but before the Light.
:>So your theory contradicts the Bible. Now, if those little voices you hear say otherwise, fine and dandy, because we are only using the Bible as our reference and most of us don't get ad hoc answers on-the-fly from talking voices. Are you going to concede that for your argument to be true, God and all his angels (or whoever he was talking to at the time of his statement) MUST have already and personally experienced evil themselves?
Of course, they had.
:>If so, how so, and why so?
May I ask you... at what point did Death and Destruction itself come into existence? When Adam ate? How could THAT be? If Death didn't exist BEFORE Adam, then death had to be 'created' AFTER Adam sinned. Yes? But Adam was told BEFORE he sinned that if he ate... he WOULD die. Death, then... BAD... existed.
The 'history' of Adam and Eve is the history of the physical realm, Farkel. If the angels were there BEFORE them, BEFORE the earth and creation of the physical realm, then, too, the DESTROYER... and angel of some type... existed as well, yes? Now, what such one 'destroyed' in the spirit realm is unknown to me. Why? Because, I currently reside in the PHYSICAL realm, and the BIBLE contains the history of THIS realm, and not that one. In addition, every time my brothers and I ASK about death, we are given a serious warning:
"JAH... is the God... of the LIVING. Concern yourself WITH Death... and you will KNOW Death. Concern yourself with LIFE... and you will know Life." (John 14:6)
I only intend to 'eat' from one tree, Farkel. The 'Tree of Life'. The OTHER one, the Tree of Knowledge, holds no lure for me, for it leads to Death. And as they say, "I ain't goin' there".
:>Particularly, why would God let that happen to them and to himself?
Are you asking me to ASK Him? Because right off-hand, I truly do not know. It has not been 'revealed' to me. In fact, as I stated above, whenever we go into the subject of death, destruction, etc., it is like a 'door' closes and we are warned to 'turn back'. We... my brothers and I... have learned to LISTEN... and not 'push the envelope' on the subject of Death, for our understanding is that there is WAY more to it that we really care to know. Most humans, though, don't KNOW that. I personally don't have to get 'burned' to know that the 'stove' my Father has told me is hot... is hot.
But if YOU want to know... keep asking. But, like I said, I'm not going there... further into the knowledge of Death... with you.
:>If not, you'd better be prepared to prove yourself using the Bible.
I gave it my best 'shot'. There are MANY more scriptures, but you can find them yourself by just doing a little cross-referencing. Or... you COULD ask. Again, though, I reiterate the warning given to ME on the subject. Take it... or leave it.
:>Let's look at the other possibility...
Sure, let's.
:>... that is to say: if "knowing" really does mean "experiencing?" First, you have ignored what was really said in the Bible (knowledge)
Which Bible and was it in Hebrew or Greek?
:>... and discussing "knowing," or "to know" even using John 17:3 to make your point. "To know" or "knowing" can mean both understanding conceptually and having a personal experience of a concept.
You are correct. So, then, in order to KNOW what the speaker REALLY meant... one would have to ASK him. Yes? I did. YOU... didn't an haven't. Moving right along...
:>"Knowledge" is most commonly used to mean having an understanding.
True that, but again, you are using the wrong word. It WASN'T 'knowledge'. It was 'know'.
:>Knowledge is mental.
Again, I agree. It is also physical, emotional, psychological... and spiritual. So?
:>Look it up in the dictionary. Neither of my dictionaries even hint that "knowledge" means or implies personal experience.
Well, in addition to what you assert, MY dictionary also says:
"The act, fact or state of knowing (a) acquaintance or familiarity with a fact, place, etc." (and etc. COULD be a person or thing... as well as "sexual intercourse". The latter denotes, then, a man and women KNOWING each other, in the most intimate sense. UNION. Truly, the act of becoming ONE flesh, yes? And does not my Lord say that we become with him and that Father ONE SPIRIT? That we are 'in union' with them, by means of holy spirit? How did Mary get pregnant? Was it not by holy spirit? You've got the wrong 'know', Farkel, I PROMISE you.
And if you want to make a lewd response about spiritual 'sex' here, I have already explained that to Uncle Bruce somewhere around here. I forget where, but I won't explain it again to prevent redunancy. But just so you KNOW that it is YOUR argument that is 'false', the Hebrew word at Genesis 3:5 and 22 is 'yaw-dah', and its definition INCLUDES 'to know... BY EXPERIENCING.' And the GREEK word at John 17:3, which YOU have misunderstood to be 'gnosis' or knowledge of... is actually 'ginosko', which means: 'come to know' AND/OR 'come to be ACQUAINTED with.'
Do I need to elaborate on what it means to make acquaintance with? It would be what you and I did during my day in Ocean Beach. I may not 'know' you WELL... nor you me... but we ARE 'acquainted' now... personally. Aren't we?
:>It COULD mean personal experience, but that is not how it is most-often used.
What does OFTEN have to do with anything? Isn't SOMETIMES enough?
:>If God wanted all of humanity to clearly understand what it was he didn't want Adam and Eve to know/experience, then why would he use a word that was at least ambiguous or at most totally misleading?
Why would YOU use a word like 'ambiguous'? Maybe cause it sounds good to YOU? Or maybe because IT'S THE RIGHT WORD TO DESCRIBE WHAT YOU MEANT. Can you help it, though, if someone ELSE doesn't get it? Can you personally make contact with everyone who wouldn't and explain it? WOULD you? Or would you expect them to either break out their dictionary and look it up... or ASK SOMEONE? No difference, Farkel: you got Bibles, dictionaries, lexicons... and my Lord. Between those FOUR... YOU should have figured out the correct meaning of the word. I did. And I'm a dingbat.
:>He could have said the "tree of the experience of Good and Evil," but he didn't say that. YOU said that.
And YOU could have said 'unclear', but you didn't. I did.
And again, your 'argument' falls apart... because of your MISassumption of what is meant by the word 'know'... and I must say that I am quite surprised at your failure to even research the matter properly before bringing this 'debate'.
:>No it doesn't.
Yes, it does.
:>Yours does.
No, it doesn't.
But, as always... I got NUTHIN' but love for 'ya! You KNOW this is truth.
Peace!
Your servant and friend, still... and a slave of Christ,
SJ
