Return To God, and He WIll Forgive You in a Large Way!

by AwakenedAndFree 270 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    AAF,

    Dear jstlaws, you say that this revised version of the NWT contains errors. This is your opinion. I do not agree with you.

    NO Dear, I never said that. I may believe that but that is not what I have been reasoning. I'm asking how you can believe it was produced by the "evil slave" society, yet by men you believe to be yjr "faithful slave", while those same men produced most of the doctrines the "evil slave" published?

    You can argue "time" but the MEN who produced the NWT were promoting doctrines that you consider false long before the NWT became a pet project.

    I'm not talking about errors in the NWT, but your inconsistent persception of the authors of the NWT.

    Steve

  • AwakenedAndFree
    AwakenedAndFree

    ((((((Dear Steve))))))

    You said:"NO Dear, I never said that. I may believe that but that is not what I have been reasoning."

    Sorry, Steve. Thanks for clarifying this for me.

    " I'm asking how you can believe it was produced by the "evil slave" society, yet by men you believe to be yjr "faithful slave", while those same men produced most of the doctrines the "evil slave" published? "

    Sorry, I can't decipher "yjr" Do you mean: your junior?The NWT revised version of the Bible wouldn't have been possible to translate without God's Holy Spirit to directed it's translation. I sincerely believe that Jehovah God guided/approved these men to execute this very responsible translating task

    "I'm not talking about errors in the NWT, but your inconsistent persception of the authors of the NWT."

    The Faithful slave class, in this case: the New World Bible Translation Committee consisted of imperfect men /sinners , too. Even though they may have sinned greatly in Jehovah God's Eyes : his/their past conduct, it is only Jehovah God who determines who is entrusted to translate the Holy Scriptures into the revised version Bible . Jehovah God's thoughts are higher than ours. So I'am Not in a position to say that the members of the committee who produced the NWT are Evil slaves because of his/their past conduct. In my opinion, they were Not Evil slaves when they translated the NWT. Because God entrusted the NWT to be released by the Society, it means these men were of the Faithful slave class. Without reservations, I trust the NWT Bible completely because I sincerely believe that Jehovah God blessed the NWT revised version and is the acceptable version for teaching that God approves.

    Sincerely.

    Christian Love,

    AAF

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    A&F, my dear, are you ignoring me?

  • AwakenedAndFree
    AwakenedAndFree

    (((((Dear Ross)))

    First, I apologize for being tardy into attending your last post.This time I had decided to answer posts in priority sequence and not in numerical sequence.

    Please don't feel ignored, Ross. I don't shun people!

    With regards to why I use the NWT Bible: It's the Bible that I foremost trust. I wholeheartedly/sincerely believe the NWT has been blessed/approved by Jehovah God. As a Jehovah God Witness, I trust it completely.

    I didn't research the Bible you referred me as there is no need to because I am a Jehovah God Witness ,and I have put my trust on the NWT Bible.

    I am very pleased to share with you quotes from Bible scholars/critics/experts on their opinions of the NWT Bible published by the Watchtower Society:

    Christian Love,

    AAF

    The excerpts bellow copied from: hector3000.futureeasyspace.com/nwt.htm

    _____________________________________________________________

    J.D. PHILLIPS: (J.D. Phillips was a Church of Christ Minister, schooled in the
    original tongues). "Last week I purchased a copy of your New World
    Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures of which I take pride in being an
    owner. You have done a marvelous work...I was happy, indeed, to see the name
    Jehovah in it. But you have made a marvelous step in the right direction, and I
    pray God that your Version will be used to His glory. What you have done for
    the Name alone is worth all the effort and cost!"

    BENJAMIN KEDAR: (Benjamin Kedar is a
    professor at Hebrew University in Israel). "In my linguistic research in connection with
    the Hebrew Bible and translations, I often refer to the English edition of what
    is known as the New World Translation. In so doing, I find my feeling
    repeatedly confirmed that this work reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an
    understanding of the text that is as accurate as possible. Giving evidence of a
    broad command of the original language, it renders the original words into a
    second language understandably without deviating unnecessarily from the specific
    structure of the Hebrew...Every statement of language allows for a certain
    latitude in interpreting or translation. So the linguistic solution in any given
    case may be open to debate. But I have never discovered in the New World
    Translation any biased intent to read something into the text that it does not
    contain."

    S. MACLEAN GILMORE: "In 1950 the Jehovah's Witnesses published their New World
    Translation of the New Testament, and the preparation of the New World Old
    Testament is now far advanced. The New Testament edition was made by a
    committee...that possessed an unusual competence in Greek." (The Andover Newton
    Quarterly, September 1966, Vol 7, #1 page 25, 26) C. HOUTMAN: Mr. Houtman
    notes that on the point of translator bias "the New World Translation of the
    Jehovah's Witnesses can survive the scrutiny of criticism." (Nederlands
    Theologisch Tijdschrift, [Dutch Theological Magazines] 38 1984, page 279-280)

    WILLIAM CAREY TAYLOR: (William C. Taylor was a Southern Baptist Minister
    schooled in the original tongues). "Just when the infidel universities of this
    land thought they had laughed out of court the very name Jehovah, up...surges..
    "Jehovah's Witnesses". ...And with considerable scholarship they get out their
    own New Testament and lo and behold, they put Jehovah into the New Testament two
    or three hundred times...It ought to be there [in the entire Bible] many times"
    (The New Bible Pro and Con, 1955 Page 75)

    C. HOUTMAN: Mr. Houtman notes that on the point of translator bias "the New World Translation of the Jehovah's Witnesses can survive the scrutiny of criticism." Nederlands Theologisch Tijdschrift, [Dutch Theological Magazines] 38 1984, page 279-280

    CHARLES FRANCIS POTTER: "the New World Translation of the Christian Greek
    Scriptures...the anonymous translators have certainly rendered the best
    manuscript texts...with scholarly ability and acumen." (The Faith Men Live By,
    1954, Page 239)

    EDGAR J. GOODSPEED: (Edgar J. Goodspeed was a Professor of Greek at the
    University of Chicago, and also translated the New Testament portion of "The
    Bible an American Translation"). "I am...much pleased with the free, frank and
    vigorous translation. It exhibits a vast array of sound serious learning, as I
    can testify." (Personal Letter to Arthur Goux of Brooklyn Bethel, December 8,
    1950; See also Watchtower September 1, 1952 page 541, where Goodspeed is quoted
    as stating that the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures was
    "an interesting and scholarly work" )

    ROBERT M. MCCOY: "The translation of the New Testament is evidence of the
    presence in the movement of scholars qualified to deal intelligently with the
    many problems of Biblical translation." (The Andover Newton Quarterly, January
    1963, Vol. 3, #3, Page 31)

    STEVEN T. BYINGTON: (Steven T. Byington translated the version known as "The
    Bible in Living English"). "If you are digging for excellent or suggestive
    renderings this is among the richer mines." (Christian Century, "Review of the
    New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, November 1, 1950 page
    1296)

    JASON BEDUHN: (Jason Beduhn teaches at the University of Indiana). "I have just
    recently completed teaching a course for the Religious Studies Department of
    Indiana University, Bloomington, ...This is primarily a course in the Gospels.
    Your help came in the form of copies of the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of
    the Greek Scriptures which my students used as one of the textbooks for the
    class. These small volumes were invaluable to the course and very popular with
    my students...Simply put, it is the best interlinear New Testament available. I
    am a trained scholar of the Bible, familiar with the texts and tools in
    use in modern biblical studies, and by the way, not a member of the Jehovah's
    Witnesses. But I know a quality publication when I see one, and your 'New World
    Bible Translation Committee' has done its job well. Your interlinear English
    rendering is accurate and consistent to an extreme that forces the reader to
    come to terms with the linguistic, cultural, and conceptual gaps between the
    Greek-speaking world and our own. Your 'New World Translation' is a high
    quality, literal translation that avoids traditional glosses in its faithfulness
    to the Greek. It is, in many ways, superior to the most successful translations
    in use today."

    The Harper Collins Bible Dictionary calls it one of the "major translations of the Bible into English," along with the Knox translation, the Jerusalem Bible, New American Bible and the New English Bible. p. 292

    ALEXANDER THOMPSON: "The translation is evidently the work of skilled and
    clever scholars, who have sought to bring out as much of the true sense of the
    Greek text as the English language is capable of expressing." (The
    Differentiator, April 1952, Page 52)

    EDGAR FOSTER: (Classics Major, Lenoir-Rhyne College)
    "Before I formally began to study Greek, I simply compared the NWT with lexicons,
    commentaries, and other translations to try and determine it's
    accuracy. It passed the litmus test then and it also passes the test
    now for me...The NWT is a fine translation. In my mind, it is the translation
    _par excellence_. But I feel just as confortable with an RSV or an
    NASB. Mostly I prefer my UBS Greek text."

    End of excerpts.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    May I ask if you checked the references? I see lots of "..." in those testimonies. That has a propensity to mean one thing, when in the quotations of the WTS - selectivity.

    Also, I'm at pains to point out that many of those quotations are dated prior to the complete work being finished. You did know that they initially released it portion by portion, didn't you?

    Further, have any of the authors of those comments ever updated their view?
    Even further, do you know the doctrinal persuasion of any of said authors?

    Finally, do you have any comment to make regarding the excerpts provided on the website that I directed you to, or SaintSatan's (he's a nice guy really - neither really a Saint or Satan) point about the use of the name "Jehovah" in the New Testament?

    I suspect that if you even looked at the Literal Version, you would find that it addresses all those points of highlighted inaccuracy. That's not to say that it doesn't have it's own flaws, but then no translation is perfect.

    PS. Would you mind sharing why you believe the NWT is "blessed"?
    PPS To state my position clearly, my trust is in God (through Christ) - not human translators.

  • AwakenedAndFree
    AwakenedAndFree

    ((((( Dear Ross))))

    "May I ask if you checked the references? I see lots of "..." in those testimonies. "

    Yes I did, Ross. Please check Mr. C. Houtman, Mr. Jason Beduhn and Mr. J. D. Phillips observations as to the current NWT Bible.

    "Also, I'm at pains to point out that many of those quotations are dated prior to the complete work being finished. You did know that they initially released it portion by portion, didn't you? "

    Again read the above statement above. A showed you a variety of opinions on the NWT Bible from different Bible experts: their opinions are based on the earlier translated versions as well up to it's modern updated version .

    "Further, have any of the authors of those comments ever updated their view?"

    I do not know. I used their opinions here because they verified what I strongly believe is the truth.

    "Even further, do you know the doctrinal persuasion of any of said authors?"

    I do Not know, no. But I respect their point-of -view on the NWT BIble.

    "Finally, do you have any comment to make regarding the excerpts provided on the website that I directed you to, or SaintSatan's (he's a nice guy really - neither really a Saint or Satan) point about the use of the name "Jehovah" in the New Testament?

    I did not visit the website you directed me to visit as it is not deemed necessary for me to do so because I have no reservations for the NWT Bible that I use.

    "I suspect that if you even looked at the Literal Version, you would find that it addresses all those points of highlighted inaccuracy. That's not to say that it doesn't have it's own flaws, but then no translation is perfect.

    I agree with you, Ross. No translation is perfect.

    PS. Would you mind sharing why you believe the NWT is "blessed"?

    I wholeheartedly/sincerely believe that Jehovah God entrusted the New World Bible Translation Committee for this very previleged translating work, and that Jehovah God's Holy Spirit guided these men in producing this revised version. It's in this way that I think Jehovah God blessed the NWT. Without God's Holy Spirit to guide these men, this NWT Bible wouldn't have been produced.

    "PPS To state my position clearly, my trust is in God (through Christ) - not human translators"

    I agree with you, Ross. Just as you choose/chose your own version of the Holy Bible, I have the same right also. When you use your own version of the Holy Bible of your choice, you are putting trust in the translater of that particular version: that's why you choose it because you like it. The same goes for me.

    Thank you for your reply.

    Sincerely,Christian Love,

    AAF

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    A&F:
    You checked the references? You actually looked at the full source, including the bits omitted by the "..."'s?
    Do you mind confirming that?

    You really don't care that it's a seriously flawed translation do you?
    Regardless of clear evidence previously presented to you, you appear not to care, with a dismissive air.
    It seems that you have placed your faith in the Translation Commitee, rather than "Jehovah".
    It's one thing to have God, or Christ, or even the bible itself as the focus of your faith, but to make an imperfect translation committee such...

    I haven't "chosen" a translation. I use several. I have my preferences, of course, and I study the original language to clarify the depth of meaning (and alternatives) of passages of scripture.
    Further, I believe that certain passages were "revealed" to me as flawed, by the power of the Holy Spirit. This was confirmed after the fact, by diligent study (some of which passages are highlighted on that website that you so casually dismissed, without even the courtesy of a glance - but it's ok - I used to do that, too, when speaking to householders as a JW).

    I wish you well, and pray that your mind may be opened even a crack to the possibility that you might be misguided on this one.

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    Are most people stupid?

    Bradley

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Btw, the link is wrong. That site is here: http://hector3000.future.easyspace.com/nwt.htm

    Incidentally, you know that site is hosted by a JW, right? It refers to Ray Franz as an apostate.

    I also note that you use selective quoting (like the WTS), as that site also contains the following:

    F.F. BRUCE: "The New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures (1950),
    followed by the New World Translation of the Hebrew Scriptures (1953 and following years), is a publication of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, Inc., and some of its distinctive renderings reflect the biblical interpretations which we have come to associate with Jehovah's Witnesses (e.g., "the Word was a god" in John 1:1). Sometimes it renders the text with an un-English literalness (e.g., "Let continue yours what is yours" in Gen. 33:9); at other times we find such colloquial phraseology as "Excuse me, Jehovah" (Ex. 4:10) and "the Nile river will fairly stink" (Ex. 7:18). Some of the renderings which are free from a theological tendency strike one as quite good; thus "a jealous God" is "a God exacting exclusive devotion", and the Hebrew phrase which the AV variously renders as "on this side Jordan" according to the context appears as "in the region of Jordan" (The English Bible 184).
    Edgar's Reply: Bruce's review is not a diatribe against the NWT and his remarks seem
    to center mostly around the renditions of the NWT as opposed to criticisms of the theological positions of Jehovah's Witnesses. Conversely, it is evident from some of his remarks that Bruce has a problem with certain renderings of the NWT for theological reasons (e.g., John 1:1. But see Greg Stafford "Jehovah's Witnesses Defended"). That being said, Bruce calls attention to the literalness of the NWT, which has been effectively treated by Rolf Furuli in his book "The Role
    of Theology and Bias in Bible Translation." Furuli shows the appropriateness of literalness in some contexts and translations. Nevertheless, Bruce also recognizes the skillful work expressed in the NWT. Overall, I think Bruce is as neutral as he can be in his comments on the NWT. Overall they present a somewhat favorable view of this influential work published by the WTBTS.

  • Vivamus
    Vivamus

    *smacks Bradley in the head* Don't get off topic

    -

    Blue Bubblegum Girl

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