Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime 170 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    Indoubtbigtime, by final steps I mean the last steps he made on the lander (made on the lower part of the ladder [or staircases]). Please note that my earlier post specifically said "... Armstrong taking the final steps off the lander ...". I guess that by "off the lander" you thought I meant "while not on the lander, but rather walking on the lunar soil". But I meant "stepping down the lander [stepping down its ladder/staircase] and stepping off from the lander onto the ground". Perhaps in the video footage he only made one step on the lander (the image is very blurry and thus hard to see), namely the one in which he stepped off the lander onto the moon. Regarding the camera angle it might have been from within the lander and pointing to a window from a good vantage points of the ladder {or staircase]. There might also have been a camera on the outside of the lander. TD's two most recent posts (prior to this post of mine) refer to a camera which "... lowered from descent stage of the module after landing ...."

    In more than one of your posts you emphasize how far away the moon and Mars are from Earth, and you say that as a result humans could not have gone to the moon in 1969 through the early 1970s and that no rovers made it to Mars.

    Perhaps you think that in order for a spaceship (and its rocket) to reach a destination very far away its rocket must be on continuously throughout the journey. But that is not the case. For proof please consider the following.

    Most likely while you were in high school you were required to take one or more courses in physics. In high school physics classes one of the main things taught are Newton's Laws of Motion. As a reminder of Newton's first law of motion note that https://www.britannica.com/science/Newtons-laws-of-motion says the following. "Newton’s first law states that if a body is at rest or moving at a constant speed in a straight line, it will remain at rest or keep moving in a straight line at constant speed unless it is acted upon by a force. In fact, in classical Newtonian mechanics, there is no important distinction between rest and uniform motion in a straight line; they may be regarded as the same state of motion seen by different observers, one moving at the same velocity as the particle and the other moving at constant velocity with respect to the particle. This postulate is known as the law of inertia."

    It is also important to know about escape velocity. To learn move about escape velocity (another concept taught in required high school physics classes) please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity . It says the following.

    'In celestial mechanics, escape velocity or escape speed is the minimum speed needed for a free, non-propelled object to escape from the gravitational influence of a primary body, thus reaching an infinite distance from it. It is typically stated as an ideal speed, ignoring atmospheric friction. ... the escape speed increases with the mass of the primary body and decreases with the distance from the primary body. The escape speed thus depends on how far the object has already traveled, and its calculation at a given distance takes into account that without new acceleration it will slow down as it travels—due to the massive body's gravity—but it will never quite slow to a stop.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion says that Newton's first law of motion can be paraphrased as follows. "A body remains at rest, or in motion at a constant speed in a straight line, unless acted upon by a force."

    The vast majority of outer space is a vacuum between the stars, planets, moons, asteroids, comets, and rocks, such as in our solar system. [In our solar system the dust concentration between the previous mentioned objects is extremely low.] As a result if spacecrafts, sent from Earth, after leaving Earth's atmosphere manage to avoid hitting those objects they will encounter almost no resistance to slow them down. Almost no friction will be acting upon them to slow it down. The gravity from the Earth can slow it down but it they left the planet at a velocity higher than the escape velocity that won't cause their velocity to drop all the way to zero. As results spaceships can reach the moon, Mars, Jupiter, and even the edge of our solar system.

    In high school, physics was one of my most favorite subjects to study. For three years in high school I took half a year of it (more than required to graduate from college). In college I took a one year course of "Physics with Calculus" which was designed for those intending to become engineers. Do you remember much from your study of high school physics?

    In 1977 NASA launched two space probes into space. The probes are called Voayager 1 and Voyager 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_program says the following about them.

    'As of 2022, the Voyagers are still in operation past the outer boundary of the heliosphere in interstellar space. They collect and transmit useful data to Earth.

    ... As of 2022, Voyager 1 was moving with a velocity of 61,185 kilometers per hour (38,019 mph), or 17 km/s, relative to the Sun, and was 23,252,000,000 kilometers (1.4448×1010 mi) from the Sun[2] reaching a distance of 155.8 AU (23.3 billion km; 14.5 billion mi) from Earth as of February 10, 2022.[3] On 25 August 2012, data from Voyager 1 indicated that it had entered interstellar space.[4]

    As of 2022, Voyager 2 was moving with a velocity of 55,335 kilometers per hour (34,384 mph), or 15 km/s, relative to the Sun, and was 19,350,000,000 kilometers (1.202×1010 mi) from the Sun[5] reaching a distance of 130.1 AU (19.5 billion km; 12.1 billion mi) from Earth as of February 10, 2022.[3] On 5 November 2019, data from Voyager 2 indicated that it also had entered interstellar space.[6] On 4 November 2019, scientists reported that, on 5 November 2018, the Voyager 2 probe had officially reached the interstellar medium (ISM), a region of outer space beyond the influence of the solar wind, as did Voyager 1 in 2012.[7][8] '

    In a prior post you said the following to me. "Disalusioned please just think about the distance between Earth and Mars and take a moment to think are those pictures really from Mars or is it all an elaborate lie and they are actually from here on Earth?" My response is as follows. I thought about the distance and in the paragraphs I mentions to you my thoughts about. I am certain that all of the photos which NASA says are from Mars really are from Mars. I have never ever doubted those photos. I am 100% certain what NASA has done is not "an elaborate LIE". I am also 100% certain that the photos (the ones NASA claims were taken from the surface of Mars) were not taken "here on Earth". After you read this entire post of mine (and after reading the posts by TD on the same topic) If you persist to claim the landing of humans upon the moon is a fraud and that rovers never landed on Mars, then I will conclude that you are either joking (or metaphorically trying to "push my buttons" and rile up people) or that you are currently incapable in drawing the correct conclusion on this topic and of thinking reasonably about it. If I conclude such about you on this topic, then I will likely no longer discuss this topic with since it would be a big waste of my time.

    In a post you asked for NASA had sent people to the moon (in 1969 through the early 1970s) then why haven't they yet returned to the moon. The answer is the following. When astronauts went to the moon they did not find any life there or even any water there. They didn't find much there to warrant continuing to go to the moon. NASA knew that in order to have a viable base on the moon the astronauts would need to be able to obtain water from the moon. They would also need to be able to grow food on the moon. Based on what they didn't find in 1969 through the 1970s and even into part of the 2000-2010 they concluded there was no point on returning to the moon. During Obama's presidency the president directed their goal to getting humans on Mars and to not bother with sending people back to the moon. Even Buzz Aldrin's book (the book I mentioned in an earlier post) from 2013 said that NASA should not return to the moon (but the book does say that Aldrin stepped onto the moon) and instead focus on going to Mars.

    But eventually with orbiting observatories NASA discovered there is water on the moon, enough to sustain a viable base on the moon and to produce rocket fuel for astronauts to journey out beyond the moon. NASA discovered that the south pole of the moon has much frozen water in craters. They also discovered that the soil at the south pole has substances which can be used to makes solar electric power panels on the moon. With such solar panels a moon base can sustainably produce power operations and split water in hydrogen and oxygen to make rocket fuel. The oxygen produced from the splitting of the water can be used for the astronauts to breathe. Recently a science lab managed to grow plants (on Earth) in a sample of the soil (in the experiment seeds were planted into the soil) which was returned from the moon decades ago. As a result, NASA now knows that astronauts can grow food at the south pole of the moon. NASA also discovered that water cover much of the sunlit surface of the moon, and that the moon thus far more water than what they previously thought - enough which can be distilled for drinking! The space agencies of China and of India have also discovered water on the moon! Some of the lunar water was made by hydrogen ions (sent from the Sun as solar wind) slamming into the moon's surface and reacting chemically with the lunar soil. There are many news sources for this. Some of them are the following.

    - https://www.npr.org/2020/10/26/927869069/water-on-the-moon-nasa-confirms-water-molecules-on-our-neighbors-sunny-surface

    - https://www.sciencealert.com/water-from-the-sun-has-been-found-on-the-moon [It says in part the following. "The Moon looks like a pretty dry dustball, but recent studies have found that there's a lot more water up there than anyone ever suspected. Obviously it's not floating around in lakes and lagoons; it's bound up in the lunar regolith, possibly lurking as ice in permanently shadowed craters, and sequestered in globules of volcanic glass."]

    - https://www.nasa.gov/feature/ames/ice-confirmed-at-the-moon-s-poles/

    - https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/moon-has-more-water-and-ice-hidden-its-surface-originally-predicted-180976146/

    - http://www.nasa.gov/feature/biological-physical/scientists-grow-plants-in-soil-from-the-moon

    - https://www.npr.org/2022/05/14/1098753238/scientists-grow-plants-soil-moon-nasa-university-of-florida

    In light of various discoveries, Trump during his presidency directed NASA to return to the moon, to create a base on the moon, and to have NASA use future experience on the future moon base to learn to how to enable future astronauts survive a trip to Mars, to survive on Mars, and to survive a trip from Mars back to Earth.

    One day ago NASA announced that they will test a nuclear thermal rocket which could enable astronauts in a future mission to travel from Earth to Mars in only 45 days, instead of months! Take would make the trip much safer since it would reduce the exposure radiation and reduce the amount of food and water needed for the trip! See https://www.livescience.com/nasa-nuclear-powered-rocket . It says in part the following.

    'NASA’s current rocket systems (including the Space Launch System which last year sent the Artemis 1 rocket on a historic round-trip to the moon) are based on the century-old, traditional method of chemical propulsion — in which an oxidizer (which gives the reaction more oxygen to combust with) is mixed with flammable rocket fuel to create a flaming jet of thrust. The proposed nuclear system, on the other hand, will harness the chain reaction from tearing apart atoms to power a nuclear fission reactor that would be “three or more times more efficient” and could reduce Mars flight times to a fraction of the current seven months, according to the agency.'

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    Corrections: In my prior post where I said "... (more than required to graduate from college)" I meant to say "... (more than required to graduate from high school)". In the same post where I said "As results spaceships can reach ..." I meant to say "As a result spaceships can reach ...".

    I had some typos in the following. "After you read this entire post of mine (and after reading the posts by TD on the same topic) If you persist to claim the landing of humans upon the moon is a fraud and that rovers never landed on Mars, then I will conclude that you are either joking (or metaphorically trying to "push my buttons" and rile up people) or that you are currently incapable in drawing the correct conclusion on this topic and of thinking reasonably about it. If I conclude such about you on this topic, then I will likely no longer discuss this topic with since it would be a big waste of my time." I instead meant to say the following.

    "After you read this entire post of mine (and after reading the posts by TD on the same topic), if you persist to claim the landing of humans upon the moon is a fraud and that rovers never landed on Mars, then I will conclude that you are either joking, or metaphorically trying to "push people's buttons" (namely to rile up people), or that you are currently incapable of drawing the correct conclusion on this topic and of thinking reasonably about it. If I conclude such about you on this topic, then I will likely no longer discuss this topic with you since it would be a big waste of my time. Are you a Flat Earther?"

  • Indoubtbigtime
    Indoubtbigtime

    Things are often not what they appear to be. They designed to give a false impression. To bend logic and create an illusion to fool your mind. The onus is on deception and false impression. Often to force you to see the world in a way someone else wants you to. This is what I term a perception deception. The current issue with Covid-19 is one of these instances. As was Brexit, the Pulse Night Club, the Boston Bombings, The War In Iraq, ISIS and also 9/11. That is just the tip of the iceberg. NASA does it all the time with Mars, The Moon and its exploration of space. Science does it. Medicine does it.

    Indeed just about everything we are taught about life in school is a perception deception. Our true nature is hidden from us. We are deceived with our perception about our minds, our bodies and also life after the illusion known as death. There is little in this world that is not a perception deception.

    https://mara-gamiel.blogspot.com/2022/09/perception-deception.html

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    Death is not an illusion; it is real. Humans definitely do not have an immortal soul or an immortal conscious spirit, and neither does any other species of mammal - not even bonobos.

  • TonusOH
    TonusOH

    "Perception deception" sounds like confirmation bias, which is just one of the ways that our brain works in order to manage the overwhelming amount of sensory information we gather every waking moment. Unfortunately, our brains aren't very good at figuring out that we've drastically changed our world over the past few thousand years, so it still behaves as it did when we were hunter gatherers out on the plains.

    It also means that maintaining a skeptical outlook is very difficult, because we are programmed to bias towards certain info, ideas, views, etc. And we also tend to invest ourselves far deeper than is warranted, given the limited information we usually have. It's recipe for taking a side on an issue and being very reluctant to let go.

  • Indoubtbigtime
  • Indoubtbigtime
    Indoubtbigtime

    Question everything

  • Simon
    Simon

    Sigh, NASA conspiracies? Really? Don't you think Russia would be all over it were it all to be faked? Or are they all now part of the conspiracy too?

    At some point you have to be reasonable and sensible - people saw rockets launch, and come back down, we have satellites for communication, imagery, monitoring, and GPS. All demonstrably real things.

  • TD
    TD

    The Apollo and Lunokhod programs both placed retroreflectors that are still operational today. 3 were placed by Apollo astronauts and 2 were integral with the Lunokhod rovers.

    Any country can use them and therefore any country could falsify the claims of either the US or RU (Or both) if the reflectors were not at the coordinates they are supposed to be at.

    (And yeah. The LRO has photographed the tracks left by the Russian rovers and the Luna landers that carried them too)

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    Thanks TD for your post which mentioned the Lunokhod rovers. Prior to reading it I didn't know (or had forgotten) that the Soviet Union had successfully made multiple unmanned moon landings. I now notice that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_1 says the following.

    "Lunokhod 1 (Russian: Луноход-1 ("Moonwalker 1"), also known as Аппарат 8ЕЛ № 203 ("Device 8EL No. 203")) was the first of two robotic lunar rovers landed on the Moon by the Soviet Union as part of its Lunokhod program. The Luna 17 spacecraft carried Lunokhod 1 to the Moon in 1970. Lunokhod 1 was the first remote-controlled robot "rover" to freely move across the surface of an astronomical object beyond the Earth. It was also the first wheeled craft on another celestial body.

    ... Although only designed for a lifetime of three lunar days (approximately three Earth months), Lunokhod 1 operated on the lunar surface for eleven lunar days (321 Earth days) and traversed a total distance of 10.54 km.

    ... Lunokhod 1 was equipped with a cone-shaped antenna, a highly directional helical antenna, four television cameras, and special extendable devices to test the lunar soil for soil density and mechanical properties. An X-ray spectrometer, an X-ray telescope, cosmic ray detectors, and a laser device were also included."

    https://www.space.com/35090-lunokhod-1.html ("Lunokhod 1: 1st Successful Lunar Rover") says the following.

    "Lunokhod 1 was the first successful rover to explore another world. It arrived on the moon on Nov. 17, 1970, upon the Luna 17 lander. Driven by remote-control operators in the Soviet Union, it travelled more than 10 kilometers (6 miles) in just 10 months. By comparison, it took the Mars Opportunity rover about six years to reach the same milestone.

    ... The Soviet Union had pinned its hopes of a manned moon landing on the Zond rocket. However, following a series of test failures, including a deadly launch pad explosion in 1968, the Soviet Union focused on other moon programs instead. Among them was robotically landing a probe on the moon, and operating a rover remotely.

    Soviet successes at the moon included Luna 3 (which took the first pictures of its far side in 1959), Luna 9 (which made the first soft landing on the moon in 1966, three years before Apollo 11's human landing) and Luna 16 (which returned samples from the moon in 1970). The next in the series, Luna 17, carried a rover for remote operations.

    ... The success of Lunokhod 1 was repeated with Lunokhod 2 in 1973, which eventually drove approximately 37 kilometers (22.9 miles) on the lunar surface. It would take the Opportunity rover more than a decade to reach that same milestone on Mars.

    The Lunokhod 1 landing site has been imaged by NASA's high-resolution lunar spacecraft, called the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter. For example, pictures from 2012 clearly show the lander, the rover and its lunar tracks. [Related: Lost Soviet Reflecting Device Rediscovered on the Moon]

    The rover's retroreflector registered an especially striking "bounce" in 2010 when scientists tried to send a laser signal to it, showing that it hadn't degraded from lunar dust or the elements. Lasers have been used to measure the exact distance from the Earth to the moon, principally using lasers from the Apollo missions.

    After Lunokhod 2, no other mission soft-landed on the surface until the Chinese space program sent Chang'e 3 and its rover, Yutu. The pair landed in December 2013."

    The accomplishments of the Soviet lunar rovers are fascinating and extremely impressive. I wish i had known of them much earlier.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_crewed_lunar_programs says the Soviets flew live animals in a spacecraft around the moon. The article says the following. "In September 1968 Zond 5 carried the first Earth lifeforms, including two tortoises, to travel around the Moon and return safely."

    Indoubtbigtime, the Soviet Union soft landed a probe on Mars in 1971.They also had sent orbiters in orbit abound Mars in the very early 1970s. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_3 which says the following.

    'Mars 3 was a robotic space probe of the Soviet Mars program, launched May 28, 1971, nine days after its twin spacecraft Mars 2. The probes were identical robotic spacecraft launched by Proton-K rockets with a Blok D upper stage, each consisting of an orbiter and an attached lander. After the Mars 2 lander crashed on the Martian surface, the Mars 3 lander became the first spacecraft to attain a soft landing on Mars, on December 2, 1971. It failed 110 seconds after landing, having transmitted only a gray image with no details.[4] The Mars 2 orbiter and Mars 3 orbiter continued to circle Mars and transmit images back to Earth for another eight months.

    ... The primary purpose of the 4M-V orbiter was to study the topography of the Martian surface; analyze its soil composition; measure various properties of the atmosphere; monitor "solar radiation, the solar wind and the interplanetary and martian magnetic fields".[5] In addition, it served as a "communications relay to send signals from the lander to Earth".'

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