if they decide to ditch 1914, all they have to do is quote Matt 24:48 saying there is a wicked slave and it was/is the wicked slave that promoted 1914...because they throw in spurious scripture or two the r/f will eat it all up. If I recall correctly the 1975 debaucle was blamed on apostates inside for leading on the r/f...so they cleaned house. I friend of mine reminds me of how Bethel cleaned house in the 1980's . Most on here likely know they kicked out Ray Franz and some others who were bringing GB to attention of wrong dating/doctrine. So all the old timers will become the "wicked slave" and the faithful slave can make up new light for the r/f... Some who have been around for years and years may not buy it and want to get out, but the new recruits won't be allowed to see the history and will be none the wiser. If I had looked at the history 50 years ago, I would have been out sooner. ( I wish I had read Ray's books sooner-but you know that isn't allowed .)
Is there “new light” on 1914?
by wallsofjericho 129 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Vidiot
TeddNZO - “Doom is always just around the corner. this sells newsletters and religions”
Movies, too. 😁
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wantingtruth
The (partial) new (in fact the original) light on 1914 is found here
https://thelatterdayschronology.blogspot.com/2021/01/teaching-of-christ-jehovah-yhwh-is-god.html
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blondie
The WTS has changed the timeline of 1914 several times starting:
What Watchtower said
prior to 1914What Watchtower claims it said
prior to 1914"The year A.D. 1878 … clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord - …" The Time is At Hand (1911 ed) p.239 "The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honesthearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus’ presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914." Watchtower 1993 Jan 15 p.5 "But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble. Zion's Watch Tower 1894 Jul 15 p.226 "Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things." Awake! 1973 Jan 22 p.8 -
ExBethelitenowPIMA
There have been a few almost imperceptible changes to their 1914 doctoral stance. Firstly they have said ‘about 1914’ instead of just 1914. Second they try and say Jesus was enthroned about 1914 but hasn’t yet sat down in the thrown, that will be in the future sometime.
So this does indeed look like a soft slight heading in the direction of a change to their 1914 foundations. But as soon as they try to have new light they will see that everything else falls apart.
It is inevitable that at sometime they will have to have an updated understanding and new light on 1914. Maybe another decade or a little longer but then it will be just to far away from 1914. But if they do then 1919 will fall apart and then the governing body being Jehovah’s channel on earth will fall apart.
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Jeffro
‘scholar’:
Jeffro would not be happy that you state that Jerusalem fell in 586 BCE and not 587 BCE so you have a big problem with this date.
The chronology the other person gave (which was much more accurate than the JW fringe nonsense) included a couple of elements of Thiele’s outdated chronology, but was otherwise accurate and it isn’t such a big problem. 586BCE is still often presented as the year of Jerusalems destruction, but no analysis in at least the last 70 years has preferred 586BCE. Modern scholarship, particularly since Wiseman’s publication of the Babylonian Chronicles, confirms 587BCE as the correct year.
See 586 or 587? for a straightforward examination of why 587BCE is the correct year.
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KerryHuish
SCHOLAR WROTE:
Daniel along with King Jehoiakim of Judah and others were deported to Babylon in 597 BCE and not 605 BCE as shown in Dan.1:1.as Nebuchadnezzer came up against Judah for the first time because of Jehoiakim's rebellion.
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The bible clearly teaches that Daniel was already in Babylon during the 2nd year of King Nebuchadnezzar.
(Daniel 2:1) In the second year of his kingship, Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar had a number of dreams, and he was so agitated that he could not sleep.
(Daniel 2:25) Arioch took Daniel to the king at once and said, “I have found a man among the exiles from Judah who can tell the king what his dream means.”
Now if you truly believe what the Witnesses teach, then you will be touting that Nebuchadnezzar 19th year was 607 BCE meaning his 2nd year was 624 BCE?
Even if you date that start of Nebuchadnezzar reign, on the widely accepted starting point of 605 BCE, then his 2nd year would be 603 BCE?
Based on this understanding, how can you keep on teaching that Daniel was taken to Babylon in 597 BCE if the Bible clearly teaches he was ALREADY THERE during the 2nd year of Nebuchadnezzar to be on hand to interpret the Kings dream?
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You seem to be completely misunderstanding the simple events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem.
1. Jerusalem and the surrounding nations were given into the hand of the King of Babylon in 609 BCE.
This was the start of desolations.(Jeremiah 25:11) This whole country will become a desolate wasteland, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years.
2. Nebuchadnezzar became King in 605 BCE.
3. In 605 BCE Nebuchadnezzar came to Jerusalem to put an end to an alliance that Jehoiakim had made with Egypt.
(2 Kings 24:1) In his days, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came up, and Jehoiakim became his servant for three years...It was at this time, in 605 BCE that Jehoiakim switched sides and paid tribute to Babylon, part of this tribute included some of the Royal offspring:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehoiakim
Jehoiakim was appointed king by Necho II, king of Egypt, in 609 BC, after Necho's return from the battle in Harran, three months after he had killed King Josiah at Megiddo.[5] Necho deposed Jehoiakim's younger brother Jehoahaz after a reign of only three months and took him to Egypt, where he died. Jehoiakim ruled originally as a vassal of the Egyptians, paying a heavy tribute. To raise the money he "taxed the land and exacted the silver and gold from the people of the land according to their assessments."[6]However, after the Egyptians were defeated by the Babylonians at the battle of Carchemish in 605 BC, Nebuchadnezzar II besieged Jerusalem, and Jehoiakim changed allegiances to avoid the destruction of Jerusalem. He paid tribute from the treasury in Jerusalem, some temple artifacts, and handed over some of the royal family and nobility as hostages.[5] In the Book of Daniel, Daniel is described as being one of these.
4. In 597 BCE - the 8th year of Nebuchadnezzar - Jerusalem again needed correction because of rebellion and many captives were taken:
(2 Kings 24:12) King Je·hoiʹa·chin of Judah went out to the king of Babylon, along with his mother, his servants, his princes, and his court officials; and the king of Babylon took him captive in the eighth year of his reign.
(2 Kings 24:14) He took into exile all Jerusalem, all the princes, all the mighty warriors, and every craftsman and metalworker—he took 10,000 into exile. No one was left behind except the poorest people of the land.
5. In 586/587 BCE during the 19th year of King Nebuchadnezzar, Jerusalem was destroyed.
(2 Kings 25:8-10) In the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month, that is, in the 19th year of King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar the king of Babylon, Neb·uʹzar·adʹan the chief of the guard, the servant of the king of Babylon, came to Jerusalem. He burned down the house of Jehovah, the king’s house, and all the houses of Jerusalem; he also burned down the house of every prominent man. And the walls surrounding Jerusalem were pulled down by the entire Chal·deʹan army that was with the chief of the guard.
6. In 539 BCE - 70 years after God had given Jerusalem and its surrounding Nations into the hand of Babylon - Babylon's time was up:(Jeremiah 25:12) “But when the seventy years are fulfilled, I will punish the king of Babylon and his nation, the land of the Babylonians, for their guilt,” declares the Lord, “and will make it desolate forever.
(Daniel 5:30, 31) That very night Belshazzar, king of the Babylonians, was slain, and Darius the Mede took over the kingdom, at the age of sixty-two.
7. After 539 BCE The Jews were released from captivity in Babylon, to rebuild the temple - as the 70 years for Babylon were now complete - but Jerusalem still lay desolate for many more years to come.
(Ezra 1:1-4) In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom and also put it in writing: “Thus says Cyrus king of Persia: The Lord, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth, and he has charged me to build him a house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Whoever is among you of all his people, may his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and rebuild the house of the Lord, the God of Israel—he is the God who is in Jerusalem. And let each survivor, in whatever place he sojourns, be assisted by the men of his place with silver and gold, with goods and with beasts, besides freewill offerings for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.”But the actual word to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, did not come until much later, during the 20th year of King Artaxerxes.
(Nehemiah 2:1-6) In the month of Nisan in the twentieth year of King Artaxerxes, when wine was brought for him, I took the wine and gave it to the king. I had not been sad in his presence before, so the king asked me, “Why does your face look so sad when you are not ill? This can be nothing but sadness of heart.” I was very much afraid, but I said to the king, “May the king live forever! Why should my face not look sad when the city where my ancestors are buried lies in ruins, and its gates have been destroyed by fire?” The king said to me, “What is it you want?” Then I prayed to the God of heaven, and I answered the king, “If it pleases the king and if your servant has found favor in his sight, let him send me to the city in Judah where my ancestors are buried so that I can rebuild it.” Then the king, with the queen sitting beside him, asked me, “How long will your journey take, and when will you get back?” It pleased the king to send me; so I set a time.
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Thus, the desolation of Jerusalem lasted for way longer than 70 years.
It was made subject to Babylon for 70 years, which lead to its destructions because of its continued rebellion.
The 70 years was for BABYLON which ran from 609 BCE to 539 BCEKind Regards
Kerry Huish -
KerryHuish
@ Scholar, again in relation to this:
SCHOLAR WROTE:
Daniel along with King Jehoiakim of Judah and others were deported to Babylon in 597 BCE and not 605 BCE as shown in Dan.1:1.as Nebuchadnezzer came up against Judah for the first time because of Jehoiakim's rebellion.
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Lets calculate this out and see where the logic places us.
If 597 BCE was Jehoiakim's 3rd year, as you propose above, and knowing that:
1. Jehoiakim ruled for 11 years.
(2 Kings 23:36) Jehoiakim was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem eleven years...
It was in Jehoiakim's 3rd year that Nebuchadnezzar came to Jerusalem and took tribute, which included some of the Royal offspring - hostages.
(Daniel 1:1, 2) In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it. And the Lord delivered Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, along with some of the articles from the temple of God. These he carried off to the temple of his god in Babylonia and put in the treasure house of his god.
2. Jehoiachin (his successor) ruled for 3 months.
( 2 Kings 24:8) Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months..It was during Jehoiachin's rule that the exile began
(2 Kings 24:12) King Je·hoiʹa·chin of Judah went out to the king of Babylon, along with his mother, his servants, his princes, and his court officials; and the king of Babylon took him captive in the eighth year of his reign.(2 Kings 24:14) He took into exile all Jerusalem, all the princes, all the mighty warriors, and every craftsman and metalworker—he took 10,000 into exile. No one was left behind except the poorest people of the land.
3. Zedekiah (his successor) ruled for 11 years.(2 Kings 24:18) Zedekiah was twenty-one years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem eleven years...
It was during the 11th year of Zedekiah's reign, Jerusalem was destroyed:
(2 Kings 25:2-11) The city was kept under siege until the eleventh year of King Zedekiah. By the ninth day of the fourth a month the famine in the city had become so severe that there was no food for the people to eat. Then the city wall was broken through, and the whole army fled at night through the gate between the two walls near the king’s garden, though the Babylonians were surrounding the city. They fled toward the Arabah, but the Babylonian d army pursued the king and overtook him in the plains of Jericho. All his soldiers were separated from him and scattered, and he was captured. He was taken to the king of Babylon at Riblah, where sentence was pronounced on him. They killed the sons of Zedekiah before his eyes. Then they put out his eyes, bound him with bronze shackles and took him to Babylon. On the seventh day of the fifth month, in the nineteenth year of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, Nebuzaradan commander of the imperial guard, an official of the king of Babylon, came to Jerusalem. He set fire to the temple of the Lord, the royal palace and all the houses of Jerusalem. Every important building he burned down. The whole Babylonian army under the commander of the imperial guard broke down the walls around Jerusalem. Nebuzaradan the commander of the guard carried into exile the people who remained in the city, along with the rest of the populace and those who had deserted to the king of Babylon.
Chart showing if Jehoiakim's 3rd year was 597 BCE vs if it was 605 BCEKind Regards
Kerry Huish -
Rattigan350
3rd year of Jehoiakim was in 607/605. That started the clock counting 2520 years. ending in 1914/1916 with Jesus enthroned as king.
End of discussion.
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Jeffro
Rattigan350:
3rd year of Jehoiakim was in 607/605. That started the clock counting 2520 years. ending in 1914/1916 with Jesus enthroned as king.
Your assessment of Jehoiakim’s 3rd year is quite wrong. And your superstitions about 1914 (and 1916) are entirely baseless.
See here for more information.
