Trump Tariffs started today, Some Countries Caved in early morning.

by liam 107 Replies latest social current

  • AnnaNana
    AnnaNana

    Rivergang said:

    Furthermore, whatever the rights and wrongs of this situation, attempts to reverse it (Ref. AnnaNana) are going to be no more successful than those of the Luddites.

    I have no desire to attempt to reverse anything. I couldn't reverse anything even if I tried. (In middle school when I used to believe everything I was taught, the "Future Problem Solvers" club meant we were the generation undergoing training to save the world - but I learned quickly that wasn't a reality. Later in college I joined a PIRG group and realized the folly of politics and the folly of grassroots campaigns.)

    This mess is too big for any human or group of humans to fix. It will only be a by a miracle that this train wreck experiment is reversed.

    Anony Mous said:

    ...you created this monster - rein it in, which means cutting down government to proper size.

    There is no "proper size" for a human-led government tyrannizing the people. The only solution is to remove it altogether.

    The only person who can remove human-led tyrannical governments altogether is God.

    He's removing them.

    Thank God.

  • Rivergang
    Rivergang
    The only person who can remove human-led tyrannical governments altogether is God.
    He's removing them.
    Thank God.

    Good luck to you with that one!

    Generations of Jehovahs Witnesses have been disappointed (and continue to be disappointed), whilst expecting that event to happen.

  • AnnaNana
    AnnaNana

    People who put faith in the evolution fairy-tale myth think "change magically happened over billions and billions of years" all by itself, with no witnesses.

    I cannot understand such ridiculous poppycock. But, nevertheless, there are people who believe such stories.

    By comparison, waiting for a mere few thousand years for an event foretold by a person whose existence was testified to by plenty of witnesses...a person who told the truth and gave many signs to back up that testimony...well, you can believe what you want, but I know what the scientific method says is more reasonable.

    I don't believe in the tooth fairy. I don't believe in the Easter Bunny, and I don't believe in cave men.

    I know Jesus exists.

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    There are movements that want to reduce and even eliminate governments - somewhere between proper conservatives (not neocons, which are disillusioned progressives) and anarcho-capitalists you can get pretty close to a “near-zero, local-only” ideal governance model.

    It’s not impossible, the early US was pretty close, there are some countries today that get pretty close because 20th century socialist government has failed (eg. Somaliland which is a federation of tribes).

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange
    a person whose existence was testified to by plenty of witnesses.

    Name the plenty. Where is their testimony.

    Matthew Mark Luke & John are only ONE testimony (you can only count the Bible once).

    History may agree a man known as Jesus, son of Joseph, walked the earth, but where are these testimonies to raising the dead, healing the sick, feeding multitudes? Nowhere but the Bible. Somehow these things were not significant enough to make the "Jerusalem Times" (history).

  • Balaamsass2
    Balaamsass2

    Today:

    Economic Outlook Dives Just Three Months Into Trump’s Term

    Probability of a recession leapt while growth outlook slumped, survey of economists finds

    By

    Paul Kiernan
    Follow

    and

    Anthony DeBarros
    Follow

    April 12, 2025 9:00 pm ET

    https://www.wsj.com/economy/trade/us-economic-outlook-trump-b4e3469a?st=e8uyRj&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

    President Trump is pushing his trade policies further than almost anyone imagined three months ago. PHOTO: ANDREW HARNIK/GETTY IMAGES

    What a difference three months makes.

    Since President Trump took office, economists have dramatically slashed estimates for growth while raising them for inflation and unemployment.

    The main reason, according to respondents to The Wall Street Journal’s quarterly survey of economists: tariffs.

    When the Journal last surveyed economists, from Jan. 10 to 14, they were unsure about many aspects of Trump’s policies, including tariffs, immigration restrictions and tax cuts. But they had to weigh that uncertainty against an economy that had consistently outperformed expectations.

    The shift in economists’ outlook reflects that Trump is pushing his trade policies further than almost anyone imagined three months ago.

    The survey gathered responses from 64 academic and business economists from April 4 to 8. That was after Trump announced a baseline duty of 10% on imports and larger, “reciprocal” tariffs on countries on April 2, which the president dubbed Liberation Day. The responses predate Trump’s announcement on April 9 of a 90-day suspension in the reciprocal tariffs while retaining the 10% baseline tariff and ratcheting duties up to 145% on China, which has retaliated, and a subsequent exemption for electronic products from China tariffs.

    GDP after inflation (quarterly, annualized growth rate)Source: Wall Street Journal surveys of economists
    Q3 2024Q4 2024Q1 2025Q2 2025Q3 2025Q4 2025Q1 202600.250.500.751.001.251.501.752.002.252.502.75%Apr. '25 forecastJan. '25 forecastOct. '24 forecast

    Economists expect U.S. gross domestic product after inflation to expand just 0.8% in the fourth quarter from a year earlier, according to the survey’s average estimate. That is down from a forecast of 2% GDP growth in January. If accurate, it would make this year the economy’s worst since 2020, when the coronavirus pandemic caused a brief but deep downturn. Economists expect 1.8% GDP growth in 2026.

    They also increased their estimated probability of recession in the next 12 months to 45%, up from 22% in January.

    Probability the U.S. is in a recession in next 12 months including todaySource: Wall Street Journal surveys of economistsNote: Average of economists' answers. Gaps indicate question not asked or data unavailable.
    RECESSION50%2006'10'15'20'250102030405060708090100%

    “We’re dancing with recession,” said Joseph Davis, chief economist at Vanguard.

    Stocks have sold off and bond yields have risen since April 2 in response to the trade war. The University of Michigan said Friday that its survey of consumer sentiment plunged to one of the lowest readings in a decade and that household inflation expectations reached their highest since the early 1980s.

    Forecasting the economy always involves a fair amount of guesswork. The last time the Journal’s survey showed economists putting this high a probability on recession—during much of 2022 and 2023—they were dead wrong.

    But uncertainty is especially high in the current moment because of Trump’s on-again, off-again approach to tariffs, which aim to rapidly reconfigure complex global supply chains that have been decades in the making.

    No one—including, apparently, Trump himself—knows the final outcome. Top aides including Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent have for months reassured Wall Street that tariffs are intended to give the U.S. leverage in negotiations with trading partners. Trump himself suggested his tariffs weren’t going to change before pausing the tariffs on Wednesday and then telling reporters Thursday that higher tariffs could come back if trade deals aren’t reached.


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    Reflecting that unpredictability, economists’ estimates for 2025 GDP growth spanned an unusually wide range.

    Amy Crews Cutts projected a 2% contraction based on plummeting consumer and business sentiment and evidence from her clients that tariffs are already causing supply-chain problems. But James F. Smith of EconForecaster is forecasting 3.1% growth on the assumption Trump will quickly roll back any tariffs because they are “so outrageous.”

    “It’s looking like brilliant diplomacy,” Smith said. “In the short run, I’d be very surprised to learn that most of the companies with critical supply chains don’t have big inventories in warehouses around the U.S.”

    Matthew Fienup and Dan Hamilton, economists at California Lutheran University whose growth estimate was in line with the 0.8% average, said their forecast assumes “that Liberation Day tariff rates will be negotiated down significantly.”

    Overall, economists projected the average U.S. tariff rate will rise about 19 percentage points in 2025. In January, they had assumed a 10-point increase. The average effective tariff last year was around 2.4%, according to the Tax Foundation.

    Economists expect Trump’s new levies to subtract 1.2 percentage points from 2025 GDP growth and add 1.1 percentage points to inflation.

    As a result, economists now see consumer prices rising 3.6% in December 2025 from a year earlier, up from 2.7% in January. The forecast for 2026 remained little changed at 2.6%, suggesting tariffs are expected to cause a one-off rise in the price level rather than sustained inflation.

    Consumer-price index, year-over-year percentage change (actual and forecasts)Sources: Labor Department (actual); Wall Street Journal surveys of economists (forecasts)
    2023'24'25'26'271.52.02.53.03.54.04.55.05.56.06.57.0%ActualApr. '25 forecastJan. '25 forecastOct. '24 forecast

    In the past two recessions, the Federal Reserve slashed interest rates to near zero. But because most economists and policymakers expect Trump’s tariffs to push up prices—at least in the short run—the prospects for Fed rate cuts are clouded. The median economist in the Journal’s survey expects two quarter-point rate cuts by December and two more in 2026, leaving the benchmark federal-funds rate between 3.25% and 3.5% by the end of next year.

    Economists also raised their average forecast for the year-end unemployment rate to 4.7% from 4.3% in January, then falling to 4.6% by the end of 2026.

    Back in January, economist Mike Cosgrove of The Econoclast anticipated no impact on growth from Trump’s tariffs, which he saw as a negotiating tool. Now, he thinks the U.S. will be lucky to skirt a recession.

    “It’s a huge shock to the whole global economy,” Cosgrove said, adding that Trump should have given businesses more time to adjust. “I totally support President Trump in his effort to level the playing field, but I don’t support how he has gone about that.”

    Economists have been whiplashed by the big swings in tariff policy in recent weeks. Upon seeing the “reciprocal” tariffs take effect on April 9, economists at Goldman Sachs raised their estimated recession probability to 65% from 45% and slashed their GDP forecast—only to revert to previous projections after Trump announced the 90-day pause.

    SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS

    How closely does your outlook on the economy align with the panel’s? Join the conversation below.

    The president, the Journal has reported, has privately acknowledged that tariffs could trigger a recession but has said he didn’t want to cause a depression.

    Like tit-for-tat trade wars, though, recessions can evolve unpredictably, with feedback mechanisms that exacerbate the deteriorations in sentiment, spending, hiring and investment. That is why policymakers will typically spare no effort to avoid them.

    “It’s hard to get people’s confidence back,” Cutts said."

  • SydBarrett
  • hoser
    hoser

    Conservatives:

    Capitalize the profits but socialize the losses

    My observations are that people in general are entitled and greedy no what political Color they wear.

    Socialist or capitalist they want to con other people into doing their work for them.

    Jehovahs witness leadership are exactly the same. Convince others to do the heavy lifting while they sit by the lake

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    Frankly, I'm still optimistic.

  • SydBarrett

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