Trump Tariffs started today, Some Countries Caved in early morning.

by liam 107 Replies latest social current

  • AnnaNana
    AnnaNana
    That being said, you will never, ever stem the tide of progress

    The word "progress" is a relative term, the understanding of which may change dependent upon your perspective.

    If you consider it "progress" to use children for slave labor so they don't grow up outside, if you consider it "progress" to poison the environment, if you consider it "progress" to change natural social structure so that people don't work their own land but instead are harnessed like "robots", if you consider it "progress" to invent a monetary system that pegs some kind of "money" ahead of love, well, then I guess "progress" of that sort has been made, but at what expense?

    True "progress" for the human family will take into account the well-being of the entire family, not just a few individuals.

    The head of the human family doesn't consider it "progress" if the poor or weak or lowly get left behind or oppressed. This whole "independence" experiment has been a failure. It's not "progress." It sucks.

    https://youtu.be/toV9uIDIJMs?si=Fl7g9ssqhuyVcYks

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    I didn't read all that went before on this thread but even before the election there were efforts to educate people about what 'trade deficits' are and what they are not.

    Before I go to the hardware store and buy a new saw, I compare prices, convenience and quality with other stores. I might even factor in my liking the owner or desire to buy local. When I decide where to buy, it is not done with the expectation that that store reciprocate and buy something from me. I make sauerkraut. It's probably not something they want, and even if they did, I might not be the best option to buy from.

    I now have a trade deficit with the hardware store. Did the store rip me off or take advantage of me? No.

    A wealthy man buys more goods than I do. He may not make anything but earns his living as a doctor. has he been taken more advantage of or ripped off more because of his buying what he wants from the best supplier? No.

    In simplest terms, when a wealthy nation has a trade deficit, it is evidence of a mature prospering postindustrial economy, not a crime.

    When America buys luxury vanilla extract from the poor nation of Madagascar, they are not expected to match that purchase in computer tech or soybeans they don't need. They are already competing with Mexico and a dozen other suppliers and working on small margins. Because Madagascar sells us more that the poor country can buy from us, they have been hit with a 47% tariff on their goods. Your vanilla just became even more a luxury and imports from the island are almost certain to fall off dramatically, impoverishing their economy further when their crime was having a less diversified economy and being poor.

    The richest nations of the world all have trade deficits with certain nations and that is normal and healthy free market economics.

    Every nation makes their own policy, some are better than others. Some are based upon ignorance. Usually the damage is limited, but when the largest economy in the world makes dumb policy, the damage can be global.

  • TD
    TD

    A lot would dépend on how one définies "Production Facility" and "Fully Automated"

    The first thing that popped into my head was manufacturing, but production can include a lot of things

  • Riley
  • joey jojo
    joey jojo

    If you are unsure about the 1930 tariff, here's a reminder from Ferris Bueller's Day Off:

    https://youtu.be/uhiCFdWeQfA?feature=shared

  • joey jojo
    joey jojo

    I watched an economist today that estimated it would take 3 years and 30 billion dollars for Apple to bring just 10 % of its manufacturing to the US. If they were made in America, it would triple the price of an iPhone.

    There are good reasons for any country to improve its debt but ignoring trade agreements and pissing off allies and partners - not to mention enemies, probably isn't the best way to earn trust.

  • Rivergang
    Rivergang
    The word "progress" is a relative term,

    I have always understood that term to mean technological advancement - and that is what I was referring to.

    The Luddites of the 18th Century failed in their time to halt the advance of technology, as likewise would any attempts to do the same in this third decade of the 21st Century.

    Things weren't exactly utopian before the industrial revolution, either. While the living conditions of the early Victorian era would appear to us as grim (certainly when viewed from a 21st Century developed nation's perspective), these actually represented a marked improvement over the living conditions of just a few decades earlier.

    People working their own land might sound like a wonderful idea - until one has actually seen the reality. I have lived in a Third World country (Papua New Guinea) where 85% of the population exists by subsistence farming (i.e. "working their own land") and that, also, is far from utopian! For those poor wretches, famine is always a very real threat, and never far away. All it takes is a natural disaster - such as drought, flood, cyclone, fire or some agricultural pest (which can be as simple as the pigs getting through the fence and destroying the food garden!) - and people starve. Furthermore, their primitive methods of agriculture are in no way sustainable. Usually described as the "slash and burn" approach, it is extremely destructive to the environment.

    It seems to be human nature to keep hankering after "the good old days"; while ignoring the fact that those "old days" were often not as good as people imagine them to have been.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Joey..The national debt is caused by government outspending revenues. It not due to trade deficits. The solution is a reduction in spending when possible, without creating an environment of austerity, (which triggers further loss of revenue), OR raising revenue. Again, that needs to be done so as to not trigger a drop in spending. Tax rates returned to the Kennedy/Nixon era would resolve the issue gradually, but neither party has the balls to do it.

    Returning to top tax rates that existed when "America was great", letting the Trump "Tax Cuts and Jobs Act" expire, including restoring the Alternative Minimum Tax thresholds could raise an additional trillion dollars in revenue without low to middle income Americans being negatively affected.

    Raising the SS tax rate by .2% or changing the earnings cap from $160K to $1 million dollars/ year would address the projected shortfall. Either are estimated to result in about a trillion dollars over 10 years. Presently Elon Musk pays all his SS taxes within minutes of every new year. I think he could afford to pay for an hour or so.

  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister
    And No One knew that Israel, USA’s brother,

    Israel is not USAs brother. The only country that has spilt it's blood for America & would do so again is Britain...because America is her child. Her rebellious, beautiful, successful favourite child.

    Portugal is our oldest childhood friend.

    Ireland is our cousin. Who had a love child with Scotland, our crazy husband, & we're all still scrapping over custody.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete
    The only country that has spilt it's blood for America & would do so again is Britain..

    I'm glad there is some goodwill for America left.

    I almost laughed out loud, he paused most of the tariffs again....chaos

    I guess enough leaders were 'kissing my ass"........

    Maybe you Brits have more experience with this sort of thing....King George III.....or maybe Lear?

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