So you think I'm a hypocrite? (page 5)

LittleToe

Sirona:
I'm quite happy for you to have used my example
My point is merely that it was a course of action that wasn't for everyone.

To be honest his days are numbered anyhow. Not just due to internal pressures, but the WTS WILL try to track him down. They HATE doubting Elders, and will try their damnedest to find out who he is and irradicate this rogue element.
I've been there, and seen it first hand. I came close to getting caught, with some very pointed questions being asked of me by a C.O.

Good luck to him, as he makes his way on the merry path called life...

Dansk

Coop man,

I haven't really decided whether or not to go back yet

How on earth can you be so undecided when you consider how your mom was treated? You must also have read some of the harrowing stories here of those treated by Watchtower! What's it going to take before you realise - REALLY REALISE - that Watchtower isn't God's representative organisation on earth?

Once I found out that I'd been lied to I was off! It started with my finding out the 607BCE date was baloney, then I dug deeper and found out that JWs used to preach Jehovah was living on a star, that Armageddon was due in 1914 (when it didn't come this was changed to Jesus taking up his position in heaven in 1914 - which is a joke when one considers as soon as he was resurrected he supposedly went to sit at the right hand of God), the generation meaning was changed, etc, etc.

I wish you well, Coop man, seriously I do. I just don't understand what you're undecided about!

Ian

czarofmischief

Sirona,

give him a break. You are throwing far too much guilt upon him. Believe me, when he gets a certain point, he will crucify himself with guilt for every false thing he's ever said. But his conscience is already pricking him, as he said that he won't take every topic for public talks. Which means he is trying to differentiate.

As for suffering as a young adult and child because of this religion, well so did I! I was beat upon, abused, wore underwear covered with other people's piss, wore cheap shoes and was beat up for it because of my parent's decision not to pursue money, was almost forced by an overzealous teacher to salute the flag - Trauma? I got it, too.

And I say just let him grow at God's rate. You sound shrill and condemnatory, the same things we condemn the Society for. He's trying, and that's good enough.

How do you know what he says to people who seek his guidance? A few kind elders are the only reason I didn't kill myself at 16, 19, or 21! Maybe he can do some good while he's in there, and then gradually get all his ducks in a row to leave. OR maybe he sees a hope for reform that we don't.

CZAR

Sirona

Czar,

give him a break. You are throwing far too much guilt upon him. Believe me, when he gets a certain point, he will crucify himself with guilt for every false thing he's ever said. But his conscience is already pricking him, as he said that he won't take every topic for public talks. Which means he is trying to differentiate.

I suppose what I'm doing is expecting him to make a stand that he clearly isn't ready (or willing?) to make. Maybe he will "crucify himself" with guilt, but maybe he won't. You don't know him either, so don't start attributing good motives and purity to him when you just don't know. I'm willing to accept that he's a good person. I still also feel that sometimes we have to say things that might be hard for the person, but things that are necessary. Believe me, I've appreciated harsh critisism which hurt me but then which brought me to my senses.

You sound shrill and condemnatory, the same things we condemn the Society for.

Maybe I do sound shrill and condemnatory. I'm sometimes sharp tongued and harsh in real life, and that is revealed in my words on this forum. I don't intend to hurt anyone. Like many here, I still battle feelings of anger toward the Watchtower Organisation and its representatives. I see the JW masses as victims, mostly, and even elders are victims - but not the elders who know the reality and yet ignore the abuse and pain and who still continue anyway.

Also, I don't think that "being condemnatory" is what we condemn the society for. I was expressing my views on a moral issue. The society don't just express their views they control peoples lives and harm people. Please don't put me on a par with them.

My anger feelings have obviously come to the fore in these posts. I think back to elders who truly hurt me and I wonder if they were sitting on the fence too....but decided that having the status of Elder and having the easy life was what they really valued (rather than my or anyone else's true welfare).

Sirona

Dansk

Maybe I do sound shrill and condemnatory. I'm sometimes sharp tongued and harsh in real life

Glad I never met that side of you!

I see the JW masses as victims, mostly, and even elders are victims - but not the elders who know the reality and yet ignore the abuse and pain and who still continue anyway.

Great insight. I agree completely!

My anger feelings have obviously come to the fore in these posts. I think back to elders who truly hurt me and I wonder if they were sitting on the fence too....but decided that having the status of Elder and having the easy life was what they really valued (rather than my or anyone else's true welfare).

Again, great insight - but acquired through sadisticly induced pain!

Sirona, this is why I find it so hard to accept that there are any truly good elders. A good elder would see all the hurt and speak out. Through speaking out he'd be condemned by his peers on the body. He'd then either have to leave or be pushed. A "good elder" would end up here, in all probability - or at the very least he'd leave Watchtower for good. Any elder who sticks around for position or just sits on the fence isn't good at all. He's gutless.

I'm not referring to dothemath. I believe if he is sincere he's already on the start of leaving - so perhaps he's one of the really good elders because he's here!

Ian

Sirona

Looking back on dothemath's posts, he makes clear whether he intends to leave or not:

Dothemath says:

reply to minimus

Why do you think that you would never leave????......You seem adamant. Care to expound??

I've got too many friends and family in the organization.........would be too high a price to pay.......

Then he says:

Just a note on the way this is handled in this country.........standard to have a "marking talk" regarding the individual..........strongly emphasized also is for no-one in the cong. to attend the wedding.

If a servant was to attend- he would be automatically deleted from that position.

It also seems that it's very unclear as to when (if ever) this "marking" is to end.

I recall several instances where the person would have been better off disfellowshipped.......and eventually re-instated rather than being essentially treated the same by marking, and having it go on indefinitely.

It seems to have been re-emphasized more frequently in the last couple of years, also, whether regular meeting parts, or at assemblies.

I've bolded and highlighted in red the things that I disagree with personally. Yes, I do think hypocrite is the word. Callous git also comes to mind.

Sirona

Dansk,

Glad you agree with me! It started to get lonely in this thread....

I posted my last post before seeing yours, so it wasn't a response specifically to you, rather it was to Czar.

Maybe I do sound shrill and condemnatory. I'm sometimes sharp tongued and harsh in real life

Glad I never met that side of you!

LOL! Of course I was a mild mannnered, ladylike drunk ....(ahem) - yes I remember well. I'm only sharp tongued about things that get me annoyed - and you were lovely to me!

Sirona

LittleToe

Darn, ya mean that sharp tongue isn't coming out to play?

Dansk

Sirona,

You were lovely, also.

This is one of the major problems with e-mail and on-the-board posts. People could get a truly FALSE impression of how a person really is. I admire your honesty. You say what you feel and I completely respect you for it.

Ian

patio34

I certainly don't consider you a hypocrite, Dothemath. You're finding your own way. It's easy for others to be critical of it.

It's surprising to me to see what seems to me to be judgmental intolerance from people who left such an intolerant group.

Moreover, condemning the WTBS necessitates, imo, critiquing the source of their teachings, the Bible. Outdated and anachronistic.

Pat

So you think I'm a hypocrite?

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