Your Ideas On The Bible?

by shamus 60 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • fearnotruth22
    fearnotruth22

    I have been a Bible reader, student, and advocate fro yeara the same as many others like me. I cannot discard the Bible as worthless. In my opinion the Bible is a good book.

    But when one defines the Bible as the "inspired word of God" what does one mean? How does the Bible apply? and what doesthe Bible mean? if it is the word God.

    Peresonally I love and respect the nBible because I think it can be used to help people.Personally my years of Bible devotion have helped me. But it is is a long leap to enjoin laws found in the Bible forcing people to obey them, or to claim that one has the only way that the Bible must be followed.

    Presently I disagree with how diff religious orgs apply and interpret the Bible. That is my position at this time In the past I thought differently because I had a ceratin mind set.

    What I extract from the Bible are the virtues that all persons should attain and to love and repect all things and to be a help to others.

    It is comforting to read that God will one day bring relief to every living thing

    However there are thinhs that do not make sense. The major problem in undertanding what the bible says is that it leaves it up to the reader to ubnderstand what is meant. It says one thing but it means something else

    In my opinion the Bible is worth studying .

  • elamona
    elamona

    Whether you believe the Bible or not a personal decision that has to be made by every one. I do beleive that ALL human beings are born with an innate desire for religion. How they express that religion or what they choose is entirely up to the individual. There are just too many things that point to a human desire to believe in a "higher" power. I don't know a single person who doesn't have some type of faith- christianity, judism, islam, wiccan, universalists, etc. Even atheists eventually attach themselves to humanism or science as the ultimate expression of their belief system. Since the beginning of time people have worshipped trees, rocks, other people, etc. ALL cultures have worshipped something down thru the ages. I don't think that I have ever read about an ancient culture that didn't have some type of religion. Many times I have heard or read about people who have a "void" that cannot be filled and they are tortured by this. Just the fact that we are born with a need for religion tells me that "something or someone" out there wants me to know Him and that I should search for Him. I may be wrong but I don't think so. Do any of you REALLY KNOW a truly areligious person?

  • bebu
    bebu
    Well, to be honest, it also takes a lot of faith NOT to believe in God or the Bible.

    That's something I agree with.

    I find it difficult to accept that something, such as a Big Bang, came out of Nothing. But, at the same time, I find it equally as difficult to accept that God has always been there. How did HE come out of nothing?

    The problem is that you are thinking of God in physical terms. Our senses do not deal with the spiritual (generally--some psychics claim otherwise). God did NOT pop into physical existence. He has an eternal spiritual existence, outside of the physical realm He created. What He created is something completely other than Himself. God is a spiritual "person", and has always existed even in the way that we could imagine that honesty or justice could somehow exist, without depending upon the existence of men. It takes a Mind to hold such concepts, not an impersonal force. ...and eternity is a hard concept to grasp.

    Is the Koran inspired of God?
    In defence of the bible I would say it is a great piece of literary work -- even better than the complete works of Shakespeare. However so is the Koran.

    Having read it... I think it is, in the final analysis, on the same level of inspiration as the GB. Would anyone say that the WT is inspired???

    Yet there is a lot of truth and insight in many religious teachings, just like you can find in Shakespeare... so was Shakespeare inspired? In some ways, I think, but not in a religious sense. I can glean a lot of useful things out of various writings and points of views without trying to get all egalitarian about them...

    I don't care what anyone says, you cannot PROVE any religion. Christians prove things based on the Bible, if you don't believe the Bible they have no proof.

    I think of theological arguments as a bit like the Kennedy assassination theories. Most people who look into the assassination, who study it hard, come up strongly on one side or the other of the issue. (I have a hard time deciding about the conspiracy theory, myself!) There are hard-thinking people on both sides. And some in the middle. ...This board has a disproportionate number of atheists, I think, but I have not been swayed by their contentions (Hi Ian! ).

    The content of the Bible has been recognized by Jews (OT)and Christians (OT, NT) as directed/inspired by God, and I completely agree with that general assessment. There are plenty of solid scholars and researchers who disagree with the theories claiming otherwise.

    But, one thing I personally have in addition to whatever theological argument is the proof of my own private experiences of Christ's presence. It is the thing that has overtaken all else that had made me a Christian before. That is, I first believed in God for basic reasons--need to see causes, for example; I first believed in Christ because of understanding that spiritual concepts truly existed (like love and forgiveness). But the anchor in my faith today is that Christ "showed up" in a decisive manner to me, and I can never forget or deny it.

    When John saw Jesus in Revelation, he fell down--he was completely overwhelmed with a greater Reality breaking in upon the physical realm. Elijah also collapsed at the sight of the likeness of the glory of God. It is not a simple, fuzzy experience which we can all relate to, because you cannot relate to it unless you've had it. I think the Christians on this board who have ever experienced that awesome presence of Christ will all quickly agree that the full reality of that provides the best proof of all. Words really fail it. It makes sex seem like a one-dimensional, fleeting joy in comparison.

    (I will even go so far as to say that many searching hearts would honestly prefer having that experience over a conclusive theological argument, to test that reality themselves. And they should choose it, if they could, believe me. Yet I don't know God's methods or timing. He's not a bellhop.)

    Anywaaaaay, that experience dovetails for many Christians with how we understand God as we read the Bible, so naturally we recognize God's fingerprints all over in the Bible. Whatever you want to call that.

    It's also why Christians can be so irritatingly stubborn.

    bebu

  • SM62
    SM62

    Bebu,

    I think the Christians on this board who have ever experienced that awesome presence of Christ will all quickly agree that the full reality of that provides the best proof of all. Words really fail it. It makes sex seem like a one-dimensional, fleeting joy in comparison.

    How come I, and millions of others, have never had an experience like that? I read the Bible to try to understand it (and fail miserably), I used to go to church, then to the KH, and listened intently to try to understand, but all I felt was numb. I pray to God and beg him to help me find 'the truth' if it exists. When I pray, I even say to the 'person' I am praying to that I am not sure who or what he/she is, but I still pray. I watch/listen to all manner of spiritual/religious programs on the TV/video. I have been to numerous churches and Bible study meetings (not just the KH) but I still feel numb.

    As so many have mentioned, why is the Bible impossible to understand? If God did inspire it, and wants us to learn from it, why did he deliberately write it in riddles? It should be plain and simple, with no possibility of being mis-interpreted, but it isn't. I don't doubt for one minute the experience you have had, but it seems to me that God is particularly choosy about who he allows to 'know' him. I really have tried so hard to find out about him, but have advanced absolutely nowhere over the past 20 years (and this hasn't been through lack of effort).

    Terri

  • shamus
    shamus

    God did a pretty crappy job with the bible... I think that that itself proves that it is horseshit. True, it could have been inspired of god per se, but men wrote it with they're own take on things, so to speak!

    It's like having ten people tell you something in a row and it comes out garbled.... so, maybe god does not want us to understand it. He sure made dammed sure of that!

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Aniron:
    Welcome to the board, and may I say, I really enjoyed your post.
    You make some excellent points regarding the viewpoint of other religions.

    Mysterian:
    I don't base my faith on the bible, yet I am a Christian.
    The "object" of my faith is simply Christ.
    The bible confirms much of what I have (subjectively?) experienced, but IS NOT the object of my faith.

    SM62:
    There, indeed, is a mystery that many have experienced.
    I wasn't looking, and it crept up on and jumped me!!!

    I wonder whether we sometimes try too hard, and miss the point.
    The bottom line is that it stems from love and submission of the ego.
    Hope that helps in the meantime, but maybe we'll get a chance to discuss it face to face, some day

    Just to add - it seems to have nothing to do with how "good" you are. Believe me, if it were, I wouldn't be in the running for any of the experiences that I've had.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Shamus:From the viewpoint that God wrote every last word of the bible, your statements may have some merit.

    Setting that aside, for a moment, can you come up with any reasonable alternatives, that may help...

  • SM62
    SM62
    The bottom line is that it stems from love and submission of the ego.
    Hope that helps in the meantime, but maybe we'll get a chance to discuss it face to face, some day

    LittleToe,

    I'd love to discuss this some day. I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but it sounds good. Maybe I have too big an ego - I just don't know. One thing I do know is that, when I pray to understand the Bible, nobody is listening. I hope to meet many from this board one day, when you have a meet-up and I'm not working.

    Terri

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    Men who felt it right wrote down phrases, verses, stories, and in doing so taught to others truths about man - true things about how people are - right or wrong, good or bad isn't the issue, that's just opinion, description and comment.

    It's a different type of history - it describes people - and some are simply made up - but somehow we 'know' there are or have been people who are in a way like that.

    It's beautiful - like a dream

    And far out - i'm amazed by the power, luster, desirability of it - the sword that the strongest of men simply cannot pull from the rock, the treasure that seems to have fallen into the wrong hands but then not, t he beauty that cannot be bought or stolen, the most desirable whose beauty brings misfortune to the envious

    ...I do a deed in your days, a deed you will never believe.....

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    The "Skeptics' Annotated Bible" uses so many poor arguments that it is hard to take it seriously. The following is a response.

    http://www.tektonics.org/sabgen.html

    http://www.tektonics.org/TK-GEN.html

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