Your Ideas On The Bible?

by shamus 60 Replies latest watchtower bible

SM62

So, if you were looking at the Bible from the outside, as someone who wasn't raised a Christian... is there anything about it that would convince you that it is God's word?

Euphemism,
That's just my point - I don't know. I certainly don't think the Bible is the only holy book - there are many others. I just don't agree with people making blanket statements that the Bible is uninspired and full of untruths when there is the possibility it could be right. I feel the same about other books too. I wish I knew the answers to all my questions, or at least where I could go to find answers, but I don't. But just because I don't know the answers doesn't mean the answers aren't out there somewhere - if you see what I mean (sorry - waffling again!)
Terri
Sargon

My thoughts on the Bible...hmmm...
An historically incorrect account of mideast tribes riddled with several truths, half truths and many many fictions. Large parts of the mythology contained in it's pages are clearly borrowed from other cultures.
A book inspired by an omnipotent being should be free of plagarism; logical, concise and easy to follow; for it to have any meaning to us common ignoramus'. The bible is none of these, instead I find it to be more Babel than Bible.
Narkissos

I would rather describe the Bible as the textual cradle of God. In the lowest strata of the texts, there is no "God" -- only gods. The main milestones in the birth of the new concept of "God" are Josiah's reform in the 7th century BC (Yhwh is not yet God, but the only god to be worshipped -- not yet monotheism but monolatry or henotheism) and Second Isaiah in the 6th century BC (only the god Yhwh exists as such, all other gods are nothing).
Even if we have moved further from monotheism to atheism (as I think I have), the texts which were eventually gathered into the Bible remain an essential part of our imaginary / cultural history.
stillajwexelder

In defence of the bible I would say it is a great piece of literary work -- even better than the complete works of Shakespeare. However so is the Koran. I do not thinkl the Book of Mormon would qualify as a great piece of literature though IMHO
Yerusalyim

It is indeed inspired, but that doesn't mean that every word is literally true.
Mysterious

Well, to be honest, it also takes a lot of faith NOT to believe in God or the Bible. To believe that the huge variety of life on Earth just came about through a big bang or something takes a hell of a lot of faith in my book. Plus, although I do not know what I really believe, I don't want to turn my back on God or the Bible just because I don't want to go to meetings or be a JW any more.

God and the Bible do not necessarily have to be related. Look at all the faiths that believe in God but not the Bible. Just because I don't follow the Bible doesn't mean that I don't have a strong faith in God. It also doesn't mean that I believe in evolution either.
What gets me is the blind faith that people place in the bible, I know a christian girl (not a dub) who is totally lost unless she can think of a scripture that applies. She doesn't think for herself, she lets a book rule her life. You can be a good person without giving over your free will to an ancient text. I respect the bible as an old book, and as an important religious document to many, NOT as the basis for my faith.
The final straw is the way the dubs always quoted "all scriptures is inspired of God" that was written about what was scripture AT THE TIME. And it didn't apply to Paul's letters which were not scripture until later, and probably more books though I have never listed them all. Yet the dubs apply that scripture to everything.
I also read numerous sites that showed contradictions, things like the enumeration of tribes. You would think a record inspired by God would not differ so drastically from one place to another. Even the gospels contain factual contraditions, though the Greatest Man Book was always careful to dodge around these points so as to present an account that always agreed.
aniron

I find it strange that so many are willing to reject the Bible because they think it is just a book of myths and legends etc.
Many other religions in this world are based on myths and legends. Have a look at Hinduism and Buddhism, do they not have stories which are obviously myths and legendsl. Strangely some who leave the JW's will run to them quite freely, while denouncing the Bible.
Adherents of other religions are especially hard pressed to understand the emphasis Christians place on that the events and people actually took place or existed. Almost all other religions are based upon a theological dictum or ideology, not upon historical fact of its founders identity or an event in time and space. The Christian faith's dependence upon history is almost incredulous to many others.
Having worked with a devout and educated Hindu, he was bewildered by a Christian's claim that his Christian faith depended upon ,the substantial historical truth of the record concerning Jesus in the Bible. He , not understanding Christianity, thought it seemed axiomatic that such vital matters of religious truth could not be allowed to depend upon the accidents of history. If the truths which the Bible exemplified and taught are true., then they are true always and everywhere, whether a person called Jesus ever lived or not. So in his eyes whether the Bible was a book of myths and legends doesn't matter, if it stated a religious truth, it was true. Then why did Christians feel the need to prove that events and people in the Bible happened or existed. So what, if the Bible is myths and legends, does it matter.
I've come across so many who have left cults like the JW's, who have because of their experienced with the Watchtower, reject the Bible, as untrue, myths and legends. Then in the next breath are telling me they have become Pagans, Wiccans, Buddhists, Hindu's.
Many men hghly intelligent men, have set out to disprove the Bible, then have ended up as Christians.
But I see many, including myself, who because of their experience with a man-made organisation called the Watchtower, and whose teachings we freely accepted at the time. Then discover we were lied to and all the rest. Who do we blame, ourselves for being taken, then the Watchtower organisation for lying, then the scapegoat becomes the Bible. Its false, contradicts itself, myths etc. Well why didn't you see it before, this book has been around for nigh on 2000 yrs and now you've suddenly decided its now a book of myths and legends!! Many of us had as JW's been reading and using it for 10, 20, 30, 40 years now suddenly overnight it becomes this fairy tale book.
I think many, use the Bible as a scapegoat, because we don't want to admit to our stupidity of being taken in by the Watchtower organisation. Because they used the Bible in such a big way it becomes the focus of our anger against the Watchtower and in doing so many have rejected the Christian faith.
Mysterious

Many other religions in this world are based on myths and legends. Have a look at Hinduism and Buddhism, do they not have stories which are obviously myths and legendsl. Strangely some who leave the JW's will run to them quite freely, while denouncing the Bible.

That's where faith comes in. I don't care what anyone says, you cannot PROVE any religion. Christians prove things based on the Bible, if you don't believe the Bible they have no proof. Similar with other faiths and holy books, myths and legends. The thing is that you have to believe in the myths and legends of YOUR faith. Being on the outside looking in it's easy to dismiss things.
Adherents of other religions are especially hard pressed to understand the emphasis Christians place on that the events and people actually took place or existed. Almost all other religions are based upon a theological dictum or ideology, not upon historical fact of its founders identity or an event in time and space. The Christian faith's dependence upon history is almost incredulous to many others.
I don't find their dependence on history incredulous. Many religions base their faith on things that have always worked historically. I find their dependence on the bible without thinking whether what they are reading applies in modern society to be incredulous. Slavery was condoned in the bible, most in society would not condone it now. Are we to believe this is the only point that has changed over time?
If the truths which the Bible exemplified and taught are true., then they are true always and everywhere, whether a person called Jesus ever lived or not. So in his eyes whether the Bible was a book of myths and legends doesn't matter, if it stated a religious truth, it was true. Then why did Christians feel the need to prove that events and people in the Bible happened or existed. So what, if the Bible is myths and legends, does it matter.
Oh I agree with that. However there are points in the bible I hold are NOT universally true always and everywhere, that is where my objection comes in.
I've come across so many who have left cults like the JW's, who have because of their experienced with the Watchtower, reject the Bible, as untrue, myths and legends. Then in the next breath are telling me they have become Pagans, Wiccans, Buddhists, Hindu's.
I studied the Bible independent of the JW's. I read Christian literature and teachings. I talked to Christians of many denominations. When it comes down to it I simply do not accept what they believe. I reject the Bible not because it is "untrue, myths and legends" but because I don't accept it as the foundation of my faith and I don't hold that is always true no matter what. The Bible is not the higher ideal I hold to.
Many men hghly intelligent men, have set out to disprove the Bible, then have ended up as Christians.
I have zero problem with people who want to believe the Bible. I'm sure there are lots of people that Christianity is right for. However I do NOT believe that Christianity is right for everyone.
But I see many, including myself, who because of their experience with a man-made organisation called the Watchtower, and whose teachings we freely accepted at the time. Then discover we were lied to and all the rest. Who do we blame, ourselves for being taken, then the Watchtower organisation for lying, then the scapegoat becomes the Bible. Its false, contradicts itself, myths etc. Well why didn't you see it before, this book has been around for nigh on 2000 yrs and now you've suddenly decided its now a book of myths and legends!! Many of us had as JW's been reading and using it for 10, 20, 30, 40 years now suddenly overnight it becomes this fairy tale book.
Not a fairy tale book, simply a religious document that I no longer adher to but one that I still respect. I certainly do not disagree with every principle contained in it's pages. As for freely accepted, if you have heard nothing else (I was raised a dub) how can you freely accept it? I was never taught anything else. I was never allowed to explore anything else. I had it forced on me as the only way to believe since I was a baby. That isn't freely accepting to me. I don't blame myself. I have grown beyond the Watchtower. The bible is not my scapegoat, I don't need a scapegoat. I have turned myself around, and I am turning my life around.
I think many, use the Bible as a scapegoat, because we don't want to admit to our stupidity of being taken in by the Watchtower organisation. Because they used the Bible in such a big way it becomes the focus of our anger against the Watchtower and in doing so many have rejected the Christian faith.
As I said before. I reject the Christian faith on it's own merits, not on the Watchtower organisation.
Euphemism

Many other religions in this world are based on myths and legends. Have a look at Hinduism and Buddhism, do they not have stories which are obviously myths and legendsl. Strangely some who leave the JW's will run to them quite freely, while denouncing the Bible.

Well, I haven't known of any ex-JWs who became Hindus. But even assuming there are... the rest of your post goes on to explain this phenomenon quite well: To be a Hindu, you don't have to believe that these myths and legends actually happened!
There are also liberal Christian groups, who don't believe in the literal truth of the Bible. I know former Witnesses who have adopted that perspective. I would guess that some ex-Witnesses may have also been drawn to mystical practices like Sufi and Qabbala, which originated as part of Islan and Judaism respectively, but can be followed without necessarily believing the theology of the religions from which they originated.
Many of those here who criticize the Bible also criticize Christianity. But the reasons are different.
Faraon

Shamus,
Exodus 1:5 And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob
Moses, the putative writer, probably studied science in the Watchtower from which we learned that there is no such thing as rabies, illnesses cause germs (not viceversa), thinking men would rather get sick than get vaccinated, transplanted hearts influence emotions, cooking in aluminum will make you sick, it is better to die than receive a transfusion, higher education will bring you misery, etc.
Exodus 1:8 Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
Moses remembers the name of servants, but not the name of the king.
Exodus 1:15 And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah:
They had a sh*ty HMO. Only two midwives for over a million women. They were very busy.
Exodus 1:21 And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that he made them houses.
They lived on the street before.
Exodus 2: 12 And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
This was the Moses who called himself the meekest of all.
Exodus 2:24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
Good thing they groaned, or he would?ve never remembered. Maybe this was another reminder, like the rainbow.
Exodus 3: 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
The bush was full of fireflies.
Exodus 3: 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
He was either Japanese, or did not want dirt on his mountain.
Exodus 3: 7 And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows;
He had condemned to slavery in Egypt before but pretends not to know it.
Exodus 3: 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
So Moses did not know who he was, then he tells the elders, then his name is not pronounced for milenia, now the JWs call him Jehovah, not I am that I am. Must be a different god.
19 And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand.
20 And I will stretch out my hand, and smite Egypt with all my wonders which I will do in the midst thereof: and after that he will let you go.
A planned torture and murder from a god that is infinite love.
These are only the first three chapters, and I could not believe this b*ll unless I was brainwashed by a cult.

Your Ideas On The Bible?

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