did Jesus exist and does it matter? (page 5)

LittleToe

Narkissos:I agree with your post.
Of course for some of us our faith is based on a personal experience, interpreted in the light of such literature, so the removal of said literature would have little impact on our faith.

Dawn

short reply here.....

Did Jesus exist? Yes - I did extensive research on this a few years back. There is more references it Jesus in historical documents other than Josephus.

Does it matter? Yes. Learning the truth about the JW's was my first step to freedom. Learning the truth about who Jesus is brought even more freedom.

From Dawn......the new Christian

JT

I don't know about you, but I can't imagine anyone WILLINGLY dying for something they KNEW to be a hoax or fable

Hi elamona,
Who said these ones who died......KNEW it was a hoax?

excellent point- we look at 9-11 and most folks in the west firmly believe it is a HOAX that the dudes who flew into the WTC will get 30+ Virgin fine and wine women in heaven

most of us in the west hear that and say, those boys been hanging out at HOOTERS too much

yet those guys went to thier grave FIRMLY BELIEVING _ "I got a Ton of Coochie waiting for me in Heaven"

so while I agree very few folks will dye for a HOAX THEY KNOW, but there are lots of folks will die for a HOAX THEY DON'T KNOW

JT

What makes Christian authors so much more suspect than their equally religious neighbours?

EXCELLENT QUESTION- and to me the answer is simple

Thow who make extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof-

waking on water, water to wine, raising dead folks-

it matter not what religion makes such claims, I would demand the same proof from any of them that made such bold claims

JT

EXCELLENT QUESTION- and to me the answer is simple

Those who make extraordinary claims-- require extraordinary proof-

walking on water, water to wine, raising dead folks-

LittleToe

Allegedly Julius Caesar was stabbed to death by the entire senate, including his best friend. That sounds pretty extraordinary...

hooberus

I think Jesus existed but is practically unrelated to the "Christ" character we usually associate him with.

I agree with you that there is no point in trying to correct the Bible on a historical basis. The historical Jesus is simply not the Christian "Christ", and his accurate biography would never amount to a "gospel"

I disagree with the above comments. The historical Jesus is the Christ of the scriptures. Those who deny this do not have the real Jesus. Luke Chapter 24 44: And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45: Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46: And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48: And ye are witnesses of these things. 2 Corinthians 11:4 3: But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4: For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. How can you be saved by anyone but the Jesus Christ of scriptures?

Narkissos

Hooberus: although quoting Bible verses might not be the best answer to my previous remarks, I'll do pick up 2 Corinthians 11:4 which shows that in Paul's time it was possible to preach "another Jesus" than his. Namely, a Jewish Jesus (v. 22-23) who was probably somewhat closer to the historical figure. This predication could have been interesting, but it would not have been "Christian" as we understand the word (indirectly from Paul). So I totally agree with you when you say that the "Christian faith" is based on the N.T. Christ(s). But claiming that it has to be historical as well is hardly more than a blind assertion IMO.

For the rest, I'm afraid I've had all the salvation I could take...

LT: I think the experience I had when leaving the JWs (18 years ago) was not very different from yours. Faith and love of the N.T. (especially Johannine perhaps) Christ. The only difference is that in time I had to construe things differently on an intellectual level. But I still treasure this experience. Perhaps even more since I don't try to relate it to any absolute "truth".

LittleToe

Nark:
That's interesting. I'd like to hear about that sometime.
Did you retain any perception of the "divine"?

Narkissos

I perceive it as metaphorical, or poetical.

We have no problem doing that with the old gods of antiquity, whose myths and stories we enjoy. We wouldn't even think of rejecting them as bs, just because nobody makes them anymore an issue of heavy, serious, realistic truth. One has to break mentally free from the monotheistic system of belief (realizing that "God" or the "Christ character" are not anymore real, though no less interesting, than the polytheistic gods and heroes) in order to appreciate the Bible on a literary level. On such a level, my interest and joy at reading the Gospels -- which led me out of the WT -- is still the same, or perhaps even greater.

did Jesus exist and does it matter?

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