Most despicable Bible texts (page 5)

peacefulpete

I am of the mind that heartlessly attacking a persons beliefs is a form of assault, withholding the truth is a form of deception.

Sometimes I get carried away.

Sorry I have at times been less than peaceful in my style of writing.

LittleToe

Pete:
You may not have been peaceful, but then there's nothing wrong with robust discussion. I enjoy and encourage it, especially when I'm proved wrong and have to re-evaluate something.

My earlier comments weren't really directed at you, as you tend to develop well-reasoned discussions (although the quantity of subjects that you've recently brought up is hard to follow, and it's a bit mind-numbing to follow them all - they are all so damned good - can't you pace yourself ).

At the minute some of the threads are like swimming through a morass of snide comments, though. That irks me.
There's little positive about hit and run unsubstantiated criticism, often coming from a pack, as if numbers agreeing must be right.
It's not just restricted to religious topics, either, so I'm getting a bit of a bee in my bonnet, about it.

~rant over - time for bed...~

City Fan

Little Toe,

This thread has little to do with research

My opinion about the bible has been formed by a tremendous amount of research. I agree with Pete that many ex-JWs struggle to shake off the literal view of the bible that we were taught.

I do ridicule the Old Testament, as do many here, because it paints a picture of a god more imperfect than most humans. The emotions exhibited so easily by Yahweh of the Old Testament are the emotions I try to suppress, namely jealousy, anger, and pride. Some of the actions done in god's name are a complete disgrace.

May I also add that after reading many of your posts I think it would be great to meet up with you just to talk about your personal spiritual experience, obviously over a beer or two.

CF.

logansrun

Little Toe,

Unquestionably this thread is not "heavy research." I never meant it to be. At the same time, one does not need to go into a lengthy exegesis of many of the verses quoted to understand them. Sometimes a very down-to-earth "this is really very ridiculous" view of passages is exactly what is needed to cut right through to a matter (think Mark Twain or Thomas Paine). Let's just be blunt, taken at face-value much of the OT is purely morbid, vengeful and nothing near what we would expect from the God who is the very personification of Love. I'm sorry, that's just a very obvious point to me and I think it is blasphemous to say that the most holy Being in the universe would perform such idiocy and barbarism. I'll take Jesus over Yahweh, John over Moses any day of the week.

That being said I do realize that there are people who are able to salvage a faith in the Bible notwithstanding these more difficult (an understatement!) passages. In fact, yesterday I went to a Presbyterian church (Scottish...you'd be proud!) and had a delightful conversation with one of the younger ministers there, a recent grad who had some interesting things to say about her non-literal view of the Bible. (Actually, I confess she kind of turned me on, but that's an entirely different matter).

Point is, many of us were asked to defend scriptures like the ones here as being "holy" and the epitome of justice. Sometimes one needs to destroy such demons before recreating a new belief system -- even one based on Christianity.

I would actually be curious as to how you personally are able to reconcile the barbarism of Yahweh with the elevated morality of Jesus, especially the Johannine Jesus.

Bradley

LittleToe

Bradley:
It's pretty easy, to be honest.
People reported what they saw as God's hand in their lives.
They lived in a cruel world, and everything was interpreted in that context.

To be honest we still live in a cruel world.
Our everyday lives may be sanitised, with violence held behind a TV screen, but some quarters of the globe see that in the real cut and thrust of everyday living.

One instance of many (don't read on if you're squeemish):
A few years ago I was in Kenya, East Africa, travelling from Nairobi to Mombassa.
On the road there had been an accident where a large open-backed truck had shed an axel and ground to a halt.
Unfortunately the back was full of workers, going to a site, who were thrown out.
One of these men died and was left in the road where he fell, the rest of the men standing a short distance away smoking, whilst they waited for the police to attend the scene.
The heat was rising and the flies were gathering. No attempt was made to move the guy, who had contorted, in his final moments, and who's body fluids were coating the roadside.

Now that might just as easily have been related in the bible as follows:

Deut.22:8 "When thou builtest a new chariot thou shalt make firm the battlement thereof, that thou bring not blood upon thine house, if any man fall from thence."
2Sam.6:6,7 "And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the chariot, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the chariot that hadst no battlement."

(You can pick up the reading here again, if you are squeemish)
I contend that the majority of the OT was not barbaric violence at all, (where do you see that in the book of Ruth, for example?) and that you are employing hyperbole to make your point.
Notwithstanding that, there are some pretty horrific things reported, not least a crucifixion...

CityFan:

I do ridicule the Old Testament, as do many here, because it paints a picture of a god more imperfect than most humans.

Why ridicule it at all? Why not appreciate it as an ancient story, much in the way you'd enjoy the Epic of Gilgamesh?
More importantly, why should well meaning folks who unassumedly devote their time and their lives to it, be ridiculed, just because that's how they like to spend their time?
~shakes head~

Laying all that aside, for a moment, though - hopefully I'll get a chance to meet you this year, and we can have that cold one - mine'll be a Guinness, what's yours?

City Fan

LT,

I've just re-read my post from last night as after drinking about 6 glasses of wine I couldn't quite remember what I'd written. Anyway, I think ridicule was too strong a word. But I do find many passages in the OT humorous and/or awful. As a historical book it is extremely important and the more I study how the bible came to be in its present form the more amazed I am with it.

I think I've read in one of your posts that you feel the authors of the bible have tried to put into words some of their experiences of the divine rather than it being a literal explanantion of the past. I can accept that point of view and I believe it can apply to other books such as the Tao te ching.

I'll start on lager and see what happens.

LittleToe

That is exactly why, even as a Christian, I'm not dismissive of other "Holy books"; nor even the ancient works that we often see as merely literature.

I'm currently going through the Coptic and Gnostic works, and have on order a translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls, in English.

toreador

I'll start on lager and see what happens.

~Raises hand to second that motion~

mustang

Is this really a gross-out contest??

OK, here are my entries. (Remember, thou shalt useth thine auld KJV, none of that NWT stuff!!!!):

2Ki 18:27 But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? [hath he] not [sent me] to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?

Isa 36:12 But Rabshakeh said, Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? [hath he] not [sent me] to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?

I was given this one by the son of an AOG (Assembly Of God) preacher. He told me that he used this one on his Old Man to maintain his cussin’ privileges. "But, it is in the Good Book." The OM was fit to be tied.

Mustang

rem

It's pretty easy, to be honest.
People reported what they saw as God's hand in their lives.
They lived in a cruel world, and everything was interpreted in that context.

And it still happens today, except in reverse. Good events are interpreted as the work of God, while bad ones are not.

rem

Most despicable Bible texts

Share this