Making 607 crumble (page 3)

City Fan

Scholar

You did state there was abundant secular evidence for 607.

I just want one example.

ellderwho

The calculation begins with the pivotal date of 539 which is accepted by scholarship to mark the conquest of Babylon. proof of this is established by the Nabonidus Chronicle now located in the British Museum.This clay tablet is a well dated record of the Fall of Babylon which yields the date as October 5 Gregorian or October 11, Julian.

Scholar, may I present a email I sent to said British Museum;

Dear Mr XXXXX,

Your enquiry about the fall of Jerusalem is a little confusing, since it comes with a title 586/87 but then enquires about 586 BCand 607 BC. So which problem do you actually wish to address?

So far as I am aware there were two captures of Jerusalem, in 597 BC and 587 BC, except that the latter may be dated to 586 BC depending on assumptions about the calendar. Also the Jehovah's Witnesses would like us to believe that we have got it all wrong and that the dates should be lowered by about 10 years.

Christopher Walker
Deputy Keeper
Department of the Ancient Near East

Heres the link, email the museum for yourself, for your well documented date for the fall of Babylon

<[email protected]>

Texts from Cuneiform Sources is a series of volumes which have been published by J.J. Augustin Publisher since 1966. The fifth volume in this series is Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles, edited by A.K.Grayson and published in 1975. Dr. Kirk Grayson is Professor Emeritus, Department of Near & Middle Eastern Civilizations, University of Toronto, Canada. He is also Director of the Royal Inscriptions of Mesopotamia Project at the same university. A measure of his stature is the annual "AK Grayson Lecture on Assyrian History and Culture" at the University of Toronto. And if you are in Toronto next Wednesday (January 14) you can hear him lecture on "Sennacherib and the Waterworks at Bavian" (seats free, no collection) at a meeting of the Canadian Society for Mesopotamian Studies.

I would also mention that "scholar"s assertion that " proof of [the pivotal date of 539 marking the conquest of Babylon] is established by the Nabonidus Chronicle now located in the British Museum" is not entirely correct. As the book Aid to Bible Understanding explains :

It may be noted that the phrase "Seventeenth year" does not appear on the tablet, that portion of the text being damaged. This phrase is inserted by the translators because they have not found any other cuneiform tablets dated beyond Nabonidus' seventeenth year. So they assume that the fall of Babylon came in that year of his reign and that, if the tablet were not damaged, those words would appear in the space now damaged. - Aid book, p.1197. (See also w71 5/15, p.316 "Testimony of the Nabonidus Chronicle")

I am somewhat surprised that one who has attained BA Hons as well as many other scholarly qualifications is not more careful about what is offered as proof. But that aside, I congratulate "scholar" on his new academic achievement and on attaining his third year on JWD.

Earnest

ellderwho

Thanks Earnest,

I live quite a distance to make that trip to here the Professor. However I emailed the University of Toronto. They told me he is now a retired distinguished professor of Assyriology at the University of
Toronto.

I found out Dr. Grayson is quoted alot in 'Insight on the Scriptures' from what Ive read mostly in the Chronology sections and Neo-Babylonian rulers. (mostly irrelevant issues)

But the look on my moms husband face while he referenced Graysons' book for dates of kings rule was worth all the hours of wrangling over doctrinal issues.

Thanks again.

E

scholar

City Fan

As I said I have given one piece of secular evidence for establishing 607 which in turn is calculated from the pivotal date for the Fall of Babylon in 539. This date must be firmly established before proceeding further and is basic or foundational for 607. So I have fulfilled your rquest. Now, you can supply me with one piece of secular evidence for either 587 or 586,whichever takes your fancy.

scholar

City Fan

Scholar,

No you haven't. You've provided one piece of secular evidence for 539, and then biblical evidence (based on biblical interpretation) for 607.

You said there was plenty of secular evidence for 607 and I'm still waiting for an example.

For example, is there any secular evidence that allows for the fall of Jerusalem to have occurred in 607 BCE?

CF.

jws

Scholar wrote:

607 is based upon the fall of Babylon in 539 which leads to the release of the captives under Cyrus in 537 which brought their seventy years exile to a finish which inturn means that the captivity behan in 607. It does not get any easier than that as it follow the KISS principle.

Jeremiah 25 says:

11: This whole land shall become a ruin and a waste, and these nations shall serve the king of 12: Then after seventy years are completed, I will punish the king of and that nation, the land of the Chalde'ans, for their iniquity, says the LORD, making the land an everlasting waste.

AFTER (remember, K.I.S.S.) the 70 years are completed, I will punish the king of Babylon. The king of Babylon was killed in 539, the same night as the writing on the wall. So, keeping it simple, 70 years did not begin in 607, they began in 609. What does history say happened in 609? Oh, Nebuchadnezzar's father, Nabopolassar freed Babylon from the Syrians and began conquering the surrounding lands. Hmm, "these nations shall serve the king of Babylon for 70 years". How simple and fitting is that?

But rather than keeping it simple, you're going to try to tell everybody here that 70 years ends in 537, 2 years after the king of Babylon is dead. How was he punished 2 years after he was dead? The JWs don't believe in a soul that lives on after death. So what could God do to punish a pile of rotting flesh and bones? Tell us, please, how was the king of Babylon punished after the 70 years were completed? Keeping it simple, I'd assume he'd have to be alive. Meaning, the 70 years ended at or before 539, not 537.

scholar

jws

Your interpretation is that Jeremiah's prophecy applied only to Babylon but it also applies to the desolated land which would thus for seventy years ending when the exiles returned in 537 after Babylon fell in 539. If the prophecy only applied to Babylons then when did it end because its judgement was everlasting so this means that it began in 539 and continued on. Read Furuli's exegesis on Jeremiah for a better understanding of the Hebrew;

scholar

City Fan

And have we found any secular proof for 607 yet scholar???

shotgun

Scholar if Jeruselam was destroyed in 607 as you always say, does that mean Jesus returned in 1914 and it was the end of the gentile times?

I was also wondering if the concrete evidence for 607 is not stone and called the Great pyramid. By measuring a cats tail as it runs through the pyramid you will find it to be exactly 607 mm in length..coincidence or gods direction you decide.

Making 607 crumble

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