Heydog,
Welcome! Also, is there any reason that HQ can’t instruct the Elders to report allegations 100% of the time, regardless of the current laws in any given area?
DD
Two witness rule: who cares?
by _Morpheus 58 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Finkelstein
if no such law exists means the WT lawyers wouldn’t encourage reporting it, implies they condone or encourage this behavior.
Bullshit
Nice way to spin the facts Heydog you sound like the disingenuous GB member who said actually the same thing, were you just reiterating his statement ?
The fact is the WTS has been influencing to its members through the elders toward nondisclosure of these incidences to local law authorities for a very long time now.
No one is making the assertion that JW elders, or the WTS/JWS elders condone child sexaul abuse , what the matter is about is how the organization has been handling these situations when they did arise, which involved the intent of nondisclosure to local law authorities.
The policy right now is still disclosure to local law authorities by elders only when it is required to do so where the incident supposedly took place.
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Heydog
No Finklestein, I was stating what I know from my own training and experience. I can’t speak to a specific policy, I can only speak to the training I received at the time I received it.
As far as the policy, read the “mandatory reporter” on Wikipedia. Just about all modern society and cultures have a mandatory reporting requirement today, rendering the policy as standard operating procedure because every place JW’s are, all have mandatory reporting.
What some aren’t clear on is, I’m talking recent history. I don’t want to discount the terrible experience that some have gone through at the hands of men who should have been trustworthy. But a lot of this information on how to handle these things is relatively recent. Some of the things the Australian inquiry brought up for example were from the 1990’s. That in no way excuses past behavior, but the training today is much better. The training elders receive today is much more extensive then what was received 20+ years ago. But that is true of most organizations that deal with children. Shucks, my daughters school required a background check just to chaperone a school field trip. That never happened when I was in school. So even schools are responding and modernizing how they handle these situations.
and by the way, I’m not an elder.
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unsure
Protesting the "two witness rule" brings to light the greater absurdity of the Watchtower and all of its policies.
It causes people to exclaim, "What molester molests with witnesses!? What a stupid rule!"
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cofty
Heydog — It is not about a lack of training and honest mistakes in the past. It is about thousands of cases where victims were pressured not to report abuse so as to protect the organisation's reputation.
The Royal Commission uncovered more than 6,000 examples — not one of them had been reported despite some Australian states having mandatory reporting laws.
The organisation has paid out huge sums of money in recent years to compensate victims for its own neglect.
Many western countries DO NOT have mandatory reporting laws. The UK has no mandatory reporting law for example. Some US states have no mandatory reporting laws. Only some Australian states have mandatory reporting laws.
‘Internationally, few countries appear to have mandatory reporting laws covering child abuse.’ - Report by NSPCC
There is a good case to be made against mandatory reporting but it depends on organisations who work with children having a willingness to do things properly. The Watchtower have become the poster-child of how to do things badly.
Please stop trying to excuse this problem as being just an example of improving attitudes in society in general. The watchtower have been outstanding in their ineptitude in this matter.
Where mandatory reporting does not exist they have not improved one bit. The manufactured atmosphere of trust that exists in an organisation like the Watchtower, combined with an inordinate desire to protect its reputation results in a perfect environment for child abuse to prosper.
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Vidiot
cofty - "...The manufactured atmosphere of trust that exists in an organisation like the Watchtower, combined with an inordinate desire to protect its reputation results in a perfect environment for child abuse to prosper."
Not to mention that any suggestion that the "Biblical" methods and standards used by "God's Earthly Organization" are inadequate or even, God forbid, wrong... especially compared to those of "Satan's World"... is completely unacceptable to the WT higher-ups.
Frankly, I think they'd rather gargle with battery acid than acknowledge that.
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Finkelstein
So someone starts a thread stating the two witness rule is irrelevant to be expressively opposed to it and a card carrying JWS pops his head up and says yeah, the organization has new policies in place, so everything is straighten out now.
Right
What Heydog didn't come forward with in his supporting postulations is that the WTS still institutes and uses the clergy-penitent privilege where it is still lawfully active.
Meaning that the WTS lawyers will review where the situation took place look into the local laws and if there is a Clergy penitent privilege active there, they will instruct the elder(s) upon that toward there is no need to contact local law authorities about the matter.
Furthermore if the accused admits to the act and seems repentant, this again influences the elders to carry on with a disfellowship or disassociation laid upon the individual keeping the handling of the matter inside the organization .
Why endeavoring tactics like this in dealing with people who are prone toward this social behavior is irresponsible and wrought with danger is the fact that these individuals many times move out the area where they've been openly accused to only once again re offend as a sexual predator.
This is a known fact and the reason why once these individuals are released from prison they have strict stipulations on being in social environments where children are present and perhaps unattended by adults. .
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Finkelstein
Heydog says .....
Just about all modern society and cultures have a mandatory
reporting requirement today, rendering the policy as standard
operating procedure because every place JW’s are, all have
mandatory reporting.
Accept in congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses relative to where the congregation operatively exists.
There I straightened the information out for you with a little more truth attached.
Why are are posting on this thread anyways Heydog are you just trying to reconfirm your righteous integrity as a JWS ?
We ex-JWS know your trained to lie and dispel half truths if necessary to uphold the organizations and sanctify Jah's solemn chosen organization.
He's watching your steadfast devotion right now a matter of fact.
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DATA-DOG
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4857854595956736/abuse-survivors-4m-judgment-against-jehovahs-witness-umbrella-organization-upheld-court-12-10-18?page=2#/5763144396832768
Heydog, you might want to check this out...
DD