And here was another good one...
List of main points from 2023 AGM
by ExBethelitenowPIMA 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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FFGhost
statistics about how many people die and are born each day. “-Is it reasonable for us to say that Jehovah and Jesus immediately label those of goats even though they have not had a full opportunity to respond? Is it possible those may be resurrected as righteous persons? An upcoming watchtower will give us all the details on this.
This is exactly the point that “apostates” have been making for decades.
Each day that Armageddon delays, there are 100s of thousands more newborn infants who would have to be “lovingly” slaughtered by Jesus and his 144,000 horsemen.
Unless, somehow, Jehovah determines that such an action wouldn’t be “loving” after all.
But then, it is completely inconsistent to spare an infant who has “not had the opportunity to know Jehovah” but yet slaughter a child, a teen, or even an adult who has had literally 0 contact with any JW in their “ministry”.
To be consistent, Jehovah would have to “read hearts” at Armageddon, sparing those who had a “good heart”.
But what if someone with a “good heart” had a bad day when the JWs happened to pop around, and he didn’t listen? He would have been better off not getting a witness at all, and just depending on Jehovah’s mercy, right?
But that being the case, isn’t it safer, even more loving, to not give a witness at all? Just let Jehovah read everyone’s heart?
So what’s the point in giving a witness at all then?
These bozos are really floundering. They are just completely clueless about what they teach, and why.
What an absolute mess.
At least in the old days, the message was coherent. It was spectacularly wrong, based on wild speculation and outright guesses using out of context scriptures, but at least it was internally consistent and occasionally entertaining.
Now though, we get the governing bumbleheads thrashing about, not even bothering to try to make it make sense.
Sometimes people on this forum make jokes about the gb suddenly grabbing suitcases full of cash and jetting off to the Cayman Islands. I laugh along with everyone else. But maybe that’s no so far fetched after all?
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Diogenesister
It used to be that if you were disfellowshipped and died before Armageddon you would be resurrected unless you were really really bad. There will be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteousness.
but what if you didn’t die just before the end? This wouldn’t make sense and be unfair.
now they are saying pretty much everyone will make it through and then during the 1000 year reign everyone can decide if they want to live in paradise.
It's clear the Watchtower snoops have been reading apostate material and reporting back. Having found this ridiculous loophole in their theology, present GB (mark 0.2 and a 1/2) have taken a needle & thread & patched it up😂
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EasyPrompt
"I have always thought it arrogant to assume that individuals who say they are anointed are definitely in heaven once they've died. For decades, the org has said things like "So-and-So .... has received their heavenly reward"
If the GB are now openly acknowledging that only Jehovah and Jesus determine who will be resurrected to earth, surely the same is true regarding who is resurrected to a heavenly place [given that JW teaching is that not all go to heaven, of course]?
They have already recently spelled out clearly (in an attempt to explain the surge in partakers) that a person "believing sincerely" that they are anointed is not proof they are actually anointed (although that somewhat undermines Romans 8:16). Coupled with this "clarification", that openly calls into question the organisation's assumption that every member of the GB past and present - and various faithful 20th Century oldtimers - are guaranteed a place in heaven
If it's "above their pay grade" to decide about the earthly resurrection, surely it's even moreso with the heavenly resurrection?"
Yeah, especially since the scriptures show that nobody has ever been resurrected to heaven yet except for Jesus.
2 Timothy 2:16-18
"But reject empty speeches that violate what is holy, for they will lead to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene. Hy·me·naeʹus and Phi·leʹtus are among them. These men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and they are subverting the faith of some."
In the first century apostasy, there were bozos saying the heavenly resurrection already occurred. That's where the rest of Christendom got it from. The JWBozos have been saying the heavenly resurrection has been occurring since 1914-1918ish, which is a deviation from the truth.
Jesus and Paul made clear that the "first resurrection" wouldn't happen until when Jesus comes at the end of the tribulation...
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
"For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord."
The Annual Meeting GB liars are cut from the same cloth as Hymenaeus and Philetus and Alexander.
1 Timothy 1:18-20
"...go on waging the fine warfare, holding faith and a good conscience, which some have thrust aside, resulting in the shipwreck of their faith. Hy·me·naeʹus and Alexander are among these, and I have handed them over to Satan so that they may be taught by discipline not to blaspheme."
The GB are working with Satan, not Jehovah. The "discipline" they will receive for their blasphemy of claiming to represent God is soon to come.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works."
Jesus is about to bring the WTBT$ and its false prophets, the GB/FD$, to nothing.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
"However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time. True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence. But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."
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Rattigan350
Why are you all talking about who will be resurrected and who will live through Armageddon?
No one knows. But first the end will have to come and so far it hasn't.
And as for resurrection, does it really matter? It has been stated that Adam and Eve won't be resurrected. Who cares? If they were, it would be a man and a woman. What would people do, interrogate them? Torture them? Be angry at them? What information would we get from them?
Then the faithful ones would be paraded around in a rock star stadium tour to give their experiences. But we've already analyzed their lives so much that would there be anything new?
As for the resurrection to heaven. We know that only 144,000 have been set to have been anointed and all of them have been anointed. Since the mid 90s no new ones have been anointed. Around 1918 the ones who have died before then were resurrected, and since that time the anointed who died have been raised up. It is known.
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EasyPrompt
"Around 1918 the ones who have died before then were resurrected, and since that time the anointed who died have been raised up. It is known."
That's a lie.
When Jesus was resurrected, there were witnesses.
When there were resurrections in the past, there were witnesses.
There are no witnesses to that fake resurrection claim of the GB.
No one besides Jesus has been resurrected to heaven. When the anointed are resurrected, everyone will know because there will be witnesses. Jesus ate with people after he was resurrected before he ascended to heaven. Jesus hung out with people, materialized a body, and walked around with people, before he ascended to heaven. It will be the same when the resurrection of the 144,000 happens. Everyone will know. It doesn't happen until near the end of the tribulation. The apostles are still dead. Anyone anointed who died is still dead. They didn't get resurrected yet.
The GB are liars and frauds, just like the rest of the Christendom lying clergy that keep telling people the resurrection to heaven of the anointed already happened. It didn't happen yet. Everyone will know when it does.
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Rattigan350
I'm watching it now and the first thing I noticed was Ken Cook introduced a musical prelude. At the start of the conventions they would always introduce a musical interlude. I once told a CO about that and he had to look up the word in a dictionary. Maybe that suggest went all the way up.
Back in the 80s when I came in, the Governing Body had the awe about them. They were their positions since the 1920s. They had history. The ones now a days have no history.
Bro Winder is not correct when he says the governing body is not inspired. Yes, they are inspired by God. Inspired means where did the idea come from. The idea for their writings comes from God the same as with Paul. People think that being inspired means to have God directly give the information to do them. It does not.
He said the brothers are looking for a unanimous decision. Not that it is a rule.
Then David Splane - Was not changing doctrine. He was not getting dogmatic with specifics.
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Rattigan350
"When Jesus was resurrected, there were witnesses."
Because there needed to be otherwise Christian would have died at that point and there would be no reason to grow. The resurrection was a reason for the faith.
"When the anointed are resurrected, everyone will know because there will be witnesses. "
Where do you get that from?
When Jesus was resurrected, he was a spirit but took on bodies for a reason. To teach and encourage the apostle. But when the anointed are resurrected to heaven as spirit beings, they don't need to do any of that. The kingdom is already established, and Jesus is already king. They have nothing to prove to the people on earth.
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EasyPrompt
In the live stream presentation of the annual meeting, at the beginning Kenneth Cook as chairman said..."We welcome all who are tied in remotely!" Which was funny, because so many "apostates" were tied in. During the livestream some on reddit joked that when they signed in to the jwstream they upped the number attending (since the link asked how many were attending) and some people put things like "100"...later at the end of the program, Kenneth Cook announced that there were about 95,000 tied in on the jwstream...it was kind of funny. It was also funny when Kenneth Cook slipped and said the recording of the final symposium would be released next month on JW-B Broadcasting (made me think "JWBorg" Broadcasting - do they call it JWBorg at headquarters too?🤭)
Here were some
highlightsdarkness/idolatry from the opening "prayer" by Alvin Bilobraily, Portugal Branch - "...thank you for all the spiritual food you provide through the Faithful Discreet Slave...the Governing Body has a very heavy responsibility...also provide spiritual food...through the Governing Body and also the many helpers....thank you...thank you for the Watch Tower Bible Tract Society of Pennsylvania...a great support to the Governing Body..." 🤢🤮🤮🤮Made me think of this passage...
Isaiah 1:10-17
"Hear the word of Jehovah, you dictators of Sodʹom.
Pay attention to the law of our God, you people of Go·morʹrah.
“Of what benefit to me are your many sacrifices?” says Jehovah.
“I have had enough of your burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed animals,
And I have no delight in the blood of young bulls and lambs and goats.
When you come to appear before me,
Who has required this from you,
This trampling of my courtyards?
Stop bringing in any more worthless grain offerings.
Your incense is detestable to me.
New moons, sabbaths, the calling of conventions
—I cannot put up with the use of magical power along with your solemn assembly.
I have hated your new moons and your festivals.
They have become a burden to me; I am tired of bearing them.
And when you spread out your palms, I hide my eyes from you.
Although you offer many prayers, I am not listening;
Your hands are filled with blood.
Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean;
Remove your evil deeds from my sight;
Stop doing bad.
Learn to do good, seek justice,
Correct the oppressor,
Defend the rights of the fatherless child,
And plead the cause of the widow.”