Issue Facing Apostates

by Mishnah 105 Replies latest jw friends

ianao

Misnah:
As for ianao, this one is a clear example of someone suffering from a tortured mindset. That is why ianao can only reaffirm what others say for him. His thought process is shattered from past experience and there is a certain fear in venturing too far out on your own. It is much safer to just repeat and reaffirm what someone else says. That is why we get the "well said," and "again, well said" replies.
Taking your bait, I would like to point out that re-affirming what others say is much better than repeating what they say, especially when I agree with what other's say.
Your psycho-analysis of me is rather amusing though. Now, I will psycho-analize you:
As for Misnah, this one is a clear example of someone suffering from a deluded mindset. That is why Misnah can only spout reasonings that others have prepared for it. It's thought process is locked from the superstition and mind control of religion and there is a mortal fear in venturing too far out on it's own. It is much safer to just repeat and reaffirm what someone else has taught it to say. That is why we get the same empty arguments from it as from other fundementalists.
Happy? Now my post is as equally meaningless as yours.
Tina

Lol Loves,
Too funny aren't they? Blind leading the blind.
Get out of the analysts chair mish,you dont a have a clue what you're talking about.
You and your pal rex/ww are suffering from folie a deux lol.
You superstitious twits wouldnt know reason if it slapped ya's upside your heads.
Everything you said about me? Nice projection as it's your self-description.
AGAIN and just like your fellow deludenoid rex,unable to refute the fatcs and historical info that abounds re:christianity you attempt to discredit the messenger.
Your post had a lot of words,yet said nothing,,,,4 point restraints and meds might do you both some good.
Nice Try,but it's you 2 who look like empty headed asses here lol.
God_knows

*Sighs*
IANAO, I am not changing my beliefs in any way nor would I ever change to suit the status quo.
And I get labeled a fruitcake all the time thanks....
Jesus is fully God AND fully man.You, as Paul did, can be forgiven for blaspheming the MAN.
To Paul, Jesus was just a man, nothing more; to many people around the world, He is just a man, and they speak evil of him all the time, and those that believe He is God.
But some do learn the truth and can be forgiven.
ianao

God_Knows:
IANAO, I am not changing my beliefs in any way nor would I ever change to suit the status quo.
I don't want you to change your beliefs. There is no 'status quo' to suit as far as I'm concerned. I personally don't see any problem with you believing what you WANT to believe, because in my opinion you are going to believe it until you die, and then after that your belief will have literally out-lived it's purpose.
And I get labeled a fruitcake all the time thanks....
No offense, but I can see why.
Jesus is fully God AND fully man.You, as Paul did, can be forgiven for blaspheming the MAN.
More man-made reasoning to reconcile uncomprehended scripture. Suit yourself, as we all do.
To Paul, Jesus was just a man, nothing more; to many people around the world, He is just a man, and they speak evil of him all the time, and those that believe He is God.
OK. So now one would ask, how do you properly address the holy spirit within Jesus to blaspheme it and NOT be forgiven under a triune God (according to you)? Can't you see what you are doing? You are modifying your beliefs with qualifications as the issues come up. You said before that you COULDN'T blaspheme Jesus without blaspheming God because he is part of the triune God. Now you are saying that you can 'blaspheme the man' who is part of the (1in3, 3in1) God and can be forgiven for it. That's fine for you to say, but your contradicting your own logic earlier. So I guess you HAVE modified your beliefs, whether you wanted to or not.
NOTE: I was asking you a question, not trying to convert you to anything.
But some do learn the truth and can be forgiven.
Let's rephrase this to what it really means (although you may not want to admit it):
"But some do learn what I, God_Knows, believe to be the truth and can be forgiven from my perception of God."
God_Knows, you can't call something truth that others argue as false, your standing then becomes an opinion, or "true to you" and nothing more. You've already partialy got this down as you call these beliefs you have 'my beliefs' which is true. If you completely reconcile that these are YOUR BELIEFS and not some ULTIMATE TRUTH you will have a far easier time protecting your world view from being shattered by others. Then again, you may not have a problem with ignoring what other people say.
God_knows

IANAO
Remember that the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons by the Prince of Demons. THAT is true blasphemy. Denying the truth about Jesus, as I once did, calling Him a good man, good teacher, but not God....that is defaming the MAN. Yet I was forgiven, and I know it, for God speaks to me and my husband all the time. Paul too spoke against the MAN in the flesh, but not God. the Father.
Read Isaiah 9:6, John 1:1, Rev. 1, and YOU tell me what you think they mean. All you can say to me is that I have no understanding, and yet you cannot answer me rightly. You will not give me a straight answer in return.
Peace and blessings to you
ianao

IANAO
Remember that the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons by the Prince of Demons. THAT is true blasphemy.

I agree. denouncing the will of God as the work of the devil.
Denying the truth about Jesus, as I once did, calling Him a good man, good teacher, but not God....that is defaming the MAN.
I thought we were discussing blasphemy, not defamation. Besides, what you've just said is not logical. Technically, wouldn't denying his God-hood be defaming his divine status? (the spirit?) Argh! Now I remember why I dropped this silly doctrine, nevermind!
God_Knows, you seem to assume that thinking of Jesus as the good teacher and man that he was in scripture is comparable to declaring God's work as the work of the devil if you deny the tenants of a man-made doctrine. (trinity) That makes absolutely no sense at all. But hey, to each his own! Keep reading, and don't be surprised if you continue to not understand 50% of what you read in the scriptures.
Yet I was forgiven, and I know it, for God speaks to me and my husband all the time.
Okie dokie.
Paul too spoke against the MAN in the flesh, but not God. the Father.
That's right. It's because he was directing his comments to God's son Jesus, not God himself. But FAR BE IT FOR ME to read what's in scripture instead of using my imagination. Sorry, never been good at that.
Read Isaiah 9:6, John 1:1, Rev. 1, and YOU tell me what you think they mean. All you can say to me is that I have no understanding, and yet you cannot answer me rightly. You will not give me a straight answer in return.
Isaiah 9:6:
I have read these verses before. (Don't forget Immanuel (God with us)!) Several attributes of the messiah are rendered, including his being a counseler, mighty God, everlasting Father, and Prince of Peace. Yes, Jesus would be a wonderful counseler and a mighty God presiding as the everlasting Father over the creation created through him by his Father in the beginning as the Prince of Peace. A clear reading of the gospels, taking into account the miracles Jesus performed by his Father's will reinforce this verse.
John 1:1:
Taking into account the unique writing style of John, this verse tells me that the Word was with God in the beginning and was like God (divine). It does not reveal a mysterious trinity to me. Sorry!
Rev 1:1:
A revelation of Jesus given to him by his Father for the express purpose of showing his servants things which must happen shortly. (John delivered the message as sent by an angel).
The imagry and symbolism in the entire book of revelation can be interpreted many different ways. Especialy with several verses being controversial. What you see as a revelation of the Alpha and Omega at Patmos in the trinitarian sense, I see as a confused Apostle relating information coming from God by Jesus then through the angel, while not quite being sure of who is speaking from his vision. To be honest, the book of revelation is one of the major problems I have with the scriptures. Not because it shows me a trinity, but because it is thoroughly confusing.
Peace and blessings to you
Peace to you, as blessings may not be what they seem.
ianao

God_Knows:
In all fairness to you, I will admit that I too have been guilty in using man-made reasoning to reconcile scripture (DUH!)
I will say that back when I took the trinitarian point of view instead of the view I carry now, I always spent more time inventing ways that things were done and reconciling the doctrine with scripture that didn't quite fit. I find that the 'Arian' point of view is easier to argue with far more clearly written scripture to back you up instead of writing pages and pages to explain one or two verses which was commonly necessary from a trinitarian point of view.
Sorry, but I simply got tired of trying to understand a perception of God and liking it to water vapor/Ice/Liquid or the Microsoft Office suite.
Rex B13

>Interesting, Tina, how "Rex" (the former WW/Worldly Witness from H2O) continues to show how braindead a person can be when he jumps from the JW Frying Pan into the Fundy Fire.
Try Romans 3.23, 6.23, John 3.3, 3.16, 14.6, Eph. 2.8,9, Rev. 3.20
That's the simplest way to understand salvation by grace, which is what we are taught in Romans.
>As Jim Penton says, JWs and Fundies are pups from the same bitch.
Who plagarized that line from Walter Martin's comment about JWs and Russellites. How many more quotes did your fellow egghead plagarize?
BTW, at least he still believes in God. Is he 'braindead' for believing in God, Alan?
>WW/Rex keeps demonstrating why Fundies are dangerous to world security because of their complete lack of reasoning powers.
Imagine a world where one lives by the whims of the shifting sands of science, then dies accomplishing nothing and is forgotten before the headstone gets the shine off of it!
>Imagine a world run by WW. Burning at the stake would make a big comeback.
Where's your vaunted 'logical mind' at now, Alan? Are you tempted to use the usual vulgarities that usually accompany your diatribes?
>They'd be right there in league with the JW Governing Body organizing stonings of apostates.
Whom YOU evidently cannot forget since you still love to spout their style of slander.
Yakki da
Rex
Rex B13

Hi Tina,
If your such a great, tolerant person then quit slandering anyone who has faith. Perhaps you need to read your own posts? BTW, defending a positions is not at all 'unchristian' and dealing with you in a blunt manner is also not 'unchristian'.
That's another way the liberal fringe get away with anything: attack and villify then condemn when your confronted with your own errors and hypocrisy.
Yakki da
Rex
Rex B13

>I dont deny christian organizations have done a bit of good.(historically they did this to convert the 'savages',didnt they? and what happened to their peoples and cultures who wouldnt submit?) Volunteerism can be found among folks like judaism,and other non-christian denominations.
Like the rest of the old h2o apostate crowd, you exaggerate ANY alleged negatives and minimize all of the positives. Again, you do the same thing. You slander CHRISTIANS by claiming the deeds of people who may not have been at all "Christlike" are their sins also!
NO other group of people have EVER 'practiced what they preach' as much as real Christians do. That is verifiable.
You just don't like having your own 'logic' used on you.
Rex

Issue Facing Apostates

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