Issue Facing Apostates (page 7)

Sunnygal41

All of you have pretty much covered all the salient points of Mishna's comments, but I think, having read through them all, I tend to agree with RedHorseWoman.....Great Spirit, God, Allah, Elohim, belongs to NO ONE! My God/dess is a HUGE God/dess and PURE LOVE! I leave my life in His/Her hands and take the lessons as they come to me. Although, considering I've been around this ball of mud a few hundred times before, and set up my own experience this time through, everything is going exactly as it should, and I am exactly where I should be! : - )

Love and Light,

Terri

Mishnah

Gladiator,

Yes I understand that. Taking risks is a part of life. My concern is that many of you are taking an unnecessary risk. As I said, you can argue against JWs but without setting yourself up against a potentially existing God. It is not a course of wisdom to, without any reason, put oneself in such risky position when you do not have to do it. The risks of life you speak of are unavoidable in most cases, and where they are avoidable most thinking persons avoid them and take roads that are less risky unless they have face the risk in order to achieve their goals. Such is not that case here.

Mishnah

Farkel, there does not seem to be any way I can help you understand the basic argument I presented. It is a simple matter of persons, like yourself, taking an unnecessary risk. If you want to do so then so be it. But you do not have to in order to get your point across and that is what I tried to help you with. You evidently aren't concerned about it, so just ignore the thread. But given your participation, it clearly does bother your. That is why you are trying to minimize it in public and in your own mind. I understand.

Mishnah

ianao, it is hard for me to comprehend the very bad argument you present. Basically, you suggest that one may blaspheme God and that is okay, but not his spirit. Well first of all such a person would have to ask to be forgiven. Do you think the blasphemers on this board repent? Maybe they will, maybe they will not. But that is the very heart of the issue! RISK.

Secondly, you are operating under a misunderstanding of what the Bible teaches about blasphemy and forgiveness. Anyone who blasphemes against another in whom the spirit resides, is in trouble. Notice that in 1 Thessalonians 4:8 it says, "the man that shows disregard is disregarding, not man, but God, who puts his holy spirit in you." How much more so then is it a disregard for God, whose spirit it is!

I am not sure you understand the very simple argument I presented about risk. You may want to think it over more.

JanH

Mishnah,
I would recommend you try to use more arguments and less whining. Just a suggestion.

My point was simple: No one knows for absolute certainly if the biblical God exists or not. But there is no wisdom in blaspheming a potentially-existing God when you don't have to! You can make the same points against the JWs using less hate and blasphemy, but you don't.

The Biblical God is no more potentially existing than Santa Claus.

You falsely assume that the only worthy objective is arguing against the JWs. I say the JWs are just one tiny part of an evil belief system called Christianity. The sins of the JWs are tiny compared to what Christians have been doing -- and is doing -- all around the world. Most Christians worship a God they themselves believe have slaughtered and mutilated on a scale that makes Hitler look like a boy scout. That is a fact. Most Christians also believe that God will torture eternally everybody he does not like. This is an act of unspeakable evil. And of course, you do violence to language by asserting that this mass-murderer and sadist that Christians have made up to worship, "loves you".

This is a point very much worth saying, since I believe it is true that people have suffered and are suffering because Christians justify their crimes by calling them divine justice.

When you try to threaten critics to silence, it is just pathetic.

By worshipping the Christian God, you can just as well offend millions of other gods. And given lack of any positive evidence, the chance is the same that God will be offended by worship as that he will be offended by what you call blasphemy.

- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]

God_knows

IANAO

WHY do you have such difficulty with the idea that Jesus IS GOD?

John 1:1 (I know you probably know this passage, but I will say it anyhow)
In the Beginning was the word and the word was with God, and the word was God

How about 1John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the word and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

John 10:30

I and my Father are one.

John 11:25-26
I am the resurrection and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

now here, Jesus is speaking things that only apply to GOD. And yet He is applying them to Himself.

Notice, too, that Jessu commands His apostles that they be baptised in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. THREE.

Or how about John 8:56, 58
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day....Reead Gen. 18. Abraham saw JESUS.
Before Abraham was, I AM

Even momre basic....Many times in the OT, God is referred to as ELOHIM. INCLUDING GENESIS 1:1
Elohim, according to Strong's Concordance, means GODS.

It is a word made up of THREE words meaning THESE ARE GOD.

So the literal translation of Gen. 1:1, says In the beginning, GODS created the heavens and the earth.

And the Hebrew for CREATED here, is SINGULAR. So you have ONE GOD in THREE forms, creating the heavens and the earth.

By God's Word, the heavens were created; JESUS is that word.

ianao

Misnah:

ianao, it is hard for me to comprehend the very bad argument you present.

Sorry, I figured as much. So now uncomprehendable arguments are bad because YOU can't comprehend them.

Basically, you suggest that one may blaspheme God and that is okay, but not his spirit.

Yes, and so does the Bible.

Well first of all such a person would have to ask to be forgiven. Do you think the blasphemers on this board repent?

LOL. That is something for THEM to answer, not me.

Maybe they will, maybe they will not. But that is the very heart of the issue! RISK.

It's only a RISK if you consider the consequences to be substantial. You probably should say that that is the issue for you.

Secondly, you are operating under a misunderstanding of what the Bible teaches about blasphemy and forgiveness. Anyone who blasphemes against another in whom the spirit resides, is in trouble. Notice that in 1 Thessalonians 4:8 it says, "the man that shows disregard is disregarding, not man, but God, who puts his holy spirit in you." How much more so then is it a disregard for God, whose spirit it is!

Interesting. What exactly is your point? Are you telling me that since God has his own spirit, you shouldn't blaspheme him? Then how are you to be forgiven blasphemy for anything else besides his son? Oh right! Lemme guess, this is one of those catch-22 situations to thwart off unbelivers right? Only TRUE-christians get that one right? That's so that all of the people who read matthew long ago can be destroyed to fulfill prophecies right?

Besides, didn't you JUST SAY that they would have to ask forgiveness?

I am not sure you understand the very simple argument I presented about risk. You may want to think it over more.

I understand perfectly. The only RISK involved is in your head, as is everything else. There's nothing to think over. It's simple: If you don't regard the consequences as real, then there is NO RISK. Appostates aren't taking any risks at all. YOU think they are taking risks, therefor you feel the need to warn them about a possibility that is in your head because you read it in a book!

ianao

God_Knows:

Interesting scripture. Without going into long lessons that I am not qualified to teach, please tell me how one can blaspheme Jesus without blaspheming the holy spirit with a triune God. It seems to be an impossibility at this point, wouldn't you say?

Does that mean the doctrine's wrong, or the scripture is wrong...

hmmm....

God_knows

I am not perfect, all I know is that Jesus said all manner of sin and blasphemy against the Son of man will be forgiven, but blasphemy against the holy Ghost (that is, WITHIN that man) cannot be forgiven.

Perhaps it might be better to use the example of Paul, who blasphemed Jesus and all who followed Him. And yet HE was forgiven.

I have more thoughts on the subject, but need time to organise my thoughts....

Remeber, the flesh is not God itself, but the Spirit that was born into that flesh is GOD. More soon....

Farkel

: But given your participation, it clearly does bother your.

Yes, weightless arguments always do bother me.

: That is why you are trying to minimize it in public and in your own mind. I understand.

Really? Are you God and can read my mind, or are you just another judgemental Christian twit? Do you want me to use flash cards to give you a few hints about which answer is correct?

Farkel

Issue Facing Apostates

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