French MP's ban all overt religious symbols from the classroom

by yxl1 57 Replies latest jw friends

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  Narkissos

  Although I think this is a politically stupid decision, as it will unfortunately result in driving girls belonging to the most fundamentalistic Muslim families out of public schools into confessional schools or even home, I'm quite sure religious discrimination is not intended at all.

  There are basically two approaches at State secularism (or laicity): the French one (which I wholeheartedly favour, even though -- or because -- it implies a measure of utopy) is strictly individualistic. It means all individuals are subject to the secular law, regardless of their religion (or absence of religion), so that religion is a private matter and public space has to be maintained reasonably religion-free. The other (American?) approach is communitarism, which implies the State may have religious groups as interlocutors or partners. In the latter one the door is wide open to lobbyism (we don't even have a French word for that, although we have the reality) and that individuals are utterly left to religious mind and life control. Although the present French position may be seen as rearguard and already lost fight, it still may be valued for what it stands for.
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  Elsewhere

  I wonder how long before anyone gets disciplined or called on the carpet for practicing good morals?

  i.e: Moral Christian things like shunning your children because they are not in the same religion as you?

  Or perhaps a Moral act such as executing anyone who says something in opposition to Allah?
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  Guest 77

  St.Elsewhere, please note I used the word 'practicing.' Religion and Spirituality are horses of a different color.

  Practicing honesty and not telling lies are good morals. Practicing dishonesty, telling lies, deception are immoral! Action still speaks louder than words.

  Guest 77
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  Simon

  Simon, in what sense are the yarmulka and turban connected to "religious bigotry and dangerous cults"?

  They aren't as such. None of these symbols are ... and yet they all end up causing SO much trouble don't they?

  I say do away with the overt displays of religious faith ... people can have their faith and do what they want in private but they have to make a SHOW of it and that's when the problems start.

  JWs do it of course but in a different way. For instance, in our eldest's class at school is a witness boy. Everyone can take a reading book in ... and he gets sent with some JW crap that is obviously too old for him but is to "make a statement" and set him apart.

  Kids will do better without the differences being promoted IMO.
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  stillajwexelder

  Well done the French There was a french MP on the BBC last night defending the new ruling. The bottom line was that if you come to live in our country, you live by our rules. He went on to say that if he went to a Muslim country, he would have no choice but to follow their rules and local customs. I agree with this 100%. Its just so sad how in the UK, we seem to bend over backwards to push the rights of ethnic groups before our own. If I went to a Muslim country I would not drink alcohol -- I respect their laws --they should respect others
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  yxl1

  They should have included JW kids taking literature in ...

  I'm not sure, but I'd assume taking JW literature into a classroom is now forbidden. Well, lets hope so.
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  Dansk

  I'd go even further and ban school segregation. How on earth are adults expected to consider one another equal when, as children, the Jews go to one school, the Christians another, the Muslims another, etc? This inculcates bigotry. Religious practice is for the home or place of worship -it has no place in schools. There will never be unity as a human race as long as there is such religious segregation.

  Ian
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  scotsman

  In my (albeit limited) experience, the outward symbols of an individual's religion do not necessarily cause problems, at least they didn't in my childhood (the 70s & 80s) nor do they at the schools my nephews currently attend, nor do they in most workplaces. I have never it found offensive to be educated alongside, or work alongside, someone wearing a head scarf, a cross, or a turban. I do agree with Dansk that education should not be segregated.

  It is true that if you go to another country you are expected to obey their laws, but France is instituting a new law that affects its minority citizens who are not visitors and the law didn't exist when they moved there or were born there, hence the objection. Yes, they should comply with the new law, but the reaction to the ban will outweigh the benefits of neutral classrooms.

  Will this apply to Universities?
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  Satanus

  Implimenting integration is a tricky thing. Force it, and the thing targeted against goes underground. Leaving it to natural processes takes a long time, and is just as likely to fail, as to succeed. By the govt aiming at school kids w a moderate measure, it may be hoping that the next generation will be tempered or toned down in it's religious practices.

  SS
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  avishai

  Yeru, I think Simon may actually be more "conservative" than you on this one, believe it or not. Look at it this way. Europe and Canada are having a problem over there that we are just beginning to see over here. People refusing to assimilate, refusing to learn the language, expecting others to cater to their culture. "Political and cultural sensitivity" have been the big thing over there for a long time and it's led to this. It's sttarting to happen here, what with all the "Multiculturalism" bias. People saying I have to be accepting and tolerant of all "cultures. And I'm sorry, there are some cultural practices I refuse to tolerate, Like the extreme version of Islamic Jihad, or The Chinese practice of infanticide.