Is this Completely Apostate

by redline 61 Replies latest jw friends

  • Copernicus
    Copernicus

    Redline:

    Facilis descensus averno. Forbidden fruit, this was the same temptations that lead adam and eve off to destruction. Your mentioning that originally you had sought it out innocently at first, (no comments on the fact I am here as well) but then rejected your prior beliefs because of what you had stumbled across. That the society had deceptively left out information or changed it to fit the context.

    My mention of forbidden fruit was meant to be sarcastic – because of the society’s relentless directions to refrain from surfing. Originally in the garden, the fruit was proscribed for reasons best understood by Jehovah. In this case the society had things to hide. All was not right in paradise. If they had been up front about numerous items, instead of trying to conceal them, they wouldn’t ever have faced the credibility issues they face today. I believe the fault lies with them in this regard.

    I believe that there are many sides to all arguments, that we could easily bring out versus that when used in one conversation would have a completely altered meaning.

    And of course, you are right. That’s something we all have to determine for ourselves.

    I skeptically looked into the Jehovah's Witness Organization when it was first proposed to me. Not giving in on what I had already felt was factual, but then found that with their answers, and my study, that this was indeed the correct religion. But if I pause and look around, there are hordes of people trying to disway anyone associates with it away, and this is to be expected of anything that may hold value.

    Hordes? Isn’t that a bit of an overstatement? And in any event, maybe they have your best interests in mind. It is a possibility, yes?

    So rather then saturate myself with other peoples opinions, I usually stick with my own, and the Organization.

    That’s your choice. I understand completely.

    This is not completely mistake free (on my opinion), but over time the answers usually come.

    Or so they say.

    More then likely I couldn't stand up to a Theological Conversation with most of you, due to my lack of knowledge and experience. I however am strong on what I have established, and feel that my foundation is strong, and based on truths. I am sure most of you felt the same way before turning, but the love of the greater number was prophesied to start to cool as the end drew near.

    “. . . but the love of the greater number was prophesied to start to cool as the end drew near.” Do not confuse love cooling off with the experience many of us have had in all of this. I still have a love of truth. Jesus said: “everyone that is on the side of the truth listens to my voice.” As I said in my earlier post, I couldn’t reconcile the lies knowingly propagated by the society with this clear injunction. If you can, that’s OK by me.

    Why would the Jehovah's Witness be completely exempt from it?

    I think that the title of “God’s Channel” is a serious mantle to assume. While no one is exempt, they hold themselves to standards that suggest they might do better.

    Again there are personalities with the congregations, some Elders are kind and humble, while other may be pretentious and unjust in their dealings. We are plagued with imperfections, and to continue to fault the whole because of the few is ignorant and unfair. Even in my few years I have seen that, but cannot deny that my own actions have been similar, so cannot point fingers when I made my own bad steps.

    Very well said, and well thought out. I’ve had the same thoughts myself on many occasions.

    I enjoyed this exchange Redline. I am not interested in trying to sway anyone per se. I am here to try and heal the wounds I experienced while serving as a Witness. And to better understand both sides of what is an infinitely more complex issue than I would have thought possible. Over time as a Witness, you’ll see that the idea of grouping things in black and white begins to fade. Things are rarely that simple.

    I wish you all the best. And if it works for you – go for it!

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    redline,

    I admire you for standing up for yourself and for listening to the extent that you have. That takes courage. I hope you keep lurking and hopefully, keep expressing your thoughts on this site.

    : Most of the comments used to point out the improbity of the Society, I've already heard and researched.

    I'll bet you a cup of coffee you really haven't.

    Farkel

  • Introspection
    Introspection

    Hi Redline. Putting aside the issue of the name of this board for a moment, (after all most of us are just users) I think I speak for people in general, and not just those at this site that we don't like being judged. Why do you feel the need to say people's lives are worthless just by virtue of participating on this site, and being an ex-JW? I personally don't believe in the same things anymore, but I do treat people with respect and I don't push my views on anyone. If you want to have a civilized discussion, fine, but it's not going to be one way. I'll treat any witness nicely and even avoid any religious issues if it bothers them, but if they want to label me as an apostate and consider me evil thats their own insecurity.

    "It is not so much that you use your mind wrongly--you usually don't use it at all. It uses you. This is the disease."--Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now

  • Maximus
    Maximus

    ::Time frames of the end were often constructed within the flock, not given directly from the society

    This is simply untrue. Eventually you will do some research on your own and find out the truth.

  • RedhorseWoman
    RedhorseWoman

    Oh, my, redline. Your statements and responses sound like a playback of the rationalizations I used to use for many, many years. I experienced the lack of love for myself. I saw the effects of the lack of love on others. I noticed the cliques, the backbiting, the flip-flop doctrines, and I rationalized it all away. I devoured the doublespeak of the WTBTS and proclaimed it to be true....because they said so, and they are inspired of God, and they speak the truth; but when it is proved to not be true, it is because they are imperfect and merely trying to understand. But yet, we all must listen and obey because they ARE inspired by Jehovah, and to doubt or question makes us "apostates".

    Eventually, the circular reasoning starts to become clear. Eventually, the lack of the signs of the true religion become so evident that they can no longer be ignored. Eventually, you learn that Jehovah does not reside within a building in Brooklyn, NY, but rather that His "people" are those who serve Him and follow His commands. Some of these people are JWs.....many are not, and yet they are all striving to practice the love that Jesus said was necessary for his followers.

    I pray that you will find the path that is right for you. I pray, also, that if you choose to remain with the WTBTS, you do not suffer as so many others have. Read their stories. Decide for yourself if this organization exhibits God's love--or does it simply attempt to control lives for its own purposes?

  • Thirdson
    Thirdson

    Welcome Redline,

    When I read your opening post my immediate thought was "troll" and read on to see what the fuss was all about. Thanks for being here and for exchanging much more.

    To start with, a person like yourself convinced that the JW religion is both the "truth" and the truth you should not be here. You are fellowshipping with brothers and sisters who have left the WTS and openly criticize the leadership of that religion. Some here have been disfellowshipped and others DA'd themselves and according to the WTS, its directioves through the Watchtower and the (secret) elders manual you should not be having a discussion of spiritual things with such ones.

    I think you know this already which is why it is refreshing to exchange thoughts with you. This place is open to discussion of the JW religion without restrictions. You will not have your posting rights removed for expressing your beliefs. Be aware that there is a wealth of experience and knowledge amongst the combined members of this board. There are ex-bethelites and ex-elders and MS here. Some have sat on the elder's side of judicial hearings, some have experience in giving talks at many locations, Circuit and District conventions. Some us have been raised as Witnesses and reached out to higher offices and then walked away when we found what we think is the real truth.

    Join in the discussions, we all will benefit.

    Thirdson

    (Walk-away ex-JW (raised) 20+ years baptized and ex-elder)

    'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

  • claudia
    claudia

    Introspection, I had to comment on the pic on your profile, thats one of the cutest faces I have ever seen.

  • claudia
    claudia

    Redline wrote: "Time frames of the end were often constructed within the flock, not given directly from the society"

    That is a lie, why not check for yourself? I see they are still sticking with the same story huh.

  • TR
    TR

    Redline, Welcome!

    you said:

    but in reference to the religion that I practice.

    J.F. Rutherford, the second president of the Watchtower Society, said that religion is a snare and a racket. Do you believe that?

    TR

    "Kults Suk"

  • COMF
    COMF
    I am sure most of you felt the same way before turning, but the love of the greater number was prophesied to start to cool as the end drew near.

    This simply serves as a convenient set of blinders to put on, an excuse to dismiss valid points, so that you don't have to feel uncomfortable and ill at ease while avoiding the facts.

    Most of the comments used to point out the improbity of the Society, I've already heard and researched.

    My son, an active and zealous witness, says the same thing. When he says it, what he means is, he has read the Watchtower Society's explanation of it, and he has read the Watchtower Society's version of what the other side says.

    I suppose, in his mind, that qualifies as "research." It is, of course, the very thing he would warn his bible students not to do regarding their own religion.

    COMF

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