Help! Help! My son wants to tell elders about me

by LostMyReligion 49 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  JT

  kismet says :

  First consider the possibility that your son has already approached teh elders. Dear Brother So & so, I found this letter on my dad's computer blah blah blah.. what ever shall I do?" It might be an idea to ask your son, have you approached anyone yet about this, if yes, I'd like to know who so I can approach him without necessarily involving more individuals... or something simliar. this can show your willingness to follow through on what your son that was necessary.

  Then approach the elder in a somewhat serious but not overly sobre frame of mind.. My son told me he had a conversation with you and I wanted to follow up with you on it. I'm not sure what my son thinks he saw but .....

  #########

  this is why i love the NET "THANG" GREAT point he may merely be follwoing orders to give her a chance to "come clean"

  as i stated before we have the jw battle plans- there is no reason for anyone to have to submit themselves to undue suffering in an attempt to prove a point to a "computer"
  to me it's like kicking the ATM Machine cause it took your card as if it will care about your broken toe

  same with jw - they will not give a rats behind about your "Doubts"

  all they know is YOU ARE GOING AGAINST THE ORg

  AND I will tell you more and more jw are fully understanding that it useless to try and "Reason" with them- instead use thier own SYSTEM TO GET OUT AND leave as much "INTACT" as one possibly can

  i personally feel that with the net and all the advice that is here that ranges from one end of the spectrum to the other end the days of Xeroxing 50 pages of Flipflops to give to the elders TO PROVE A POINT are almost over

  ONE might as well use the jw battle plans to their advantage and bet them at thier own game

  james
• 

  Abaddon

  Dear Lost...

  First thing; as you realise the affects of being in a high control group are quite wide-ranging. Although it may feel like your son is betraying you, it is not your son who is betraying you, it is the mad cultist that jumps to the front of his brain when the right buttons get pushed.

  Given that, I would fight fire with fire; give us HIS email address and we will send him so many chatty 'apostate' letters that his nose will bleed.

  Okay, seriously, I think we have to assue he has evidence on floppy otherwise you could just delete and deny, or in fact say that you found HIM surfing apostate sites on the Internet and threatened him about it, and he's obviously trying a pre-emptive strike.

  However, there is the 'bend like the grass' option which is less confrontational.

  Admit it, say you are sorry, and be forgiven.

  They don't know what is going on in your head, so they?
• 

  JT

  mazza says:

  So ditch your principles, ditch your honesty, and ditch your apostasy

  #######

  adn i fully agree in the context of dealing with JW- it reminds me of a guy who agrees to come to a fight with just boxing gloves and then he finds out that the other guy who also agreed to come JUST WITH GLOVES is bringing a (9mm Barretta)

  what fool would say "Well i agreed to only bring a pair of boxing gloves"

  james
• 

  outnfree

  Oh, my dear Lost,

  We have already had this little conversation, but I must agree with those who say DEAL with the elders and don't say anything incriminating!!! If it means lying to save your relationship with your son, LIE (James & the others are right -- it's theocratic warfare -- now you're just on the other side!!!)

  It is a REAL possiblity that your son has already been to the elders.
  My girlfriend had asked me to go to the elders or write to the Society. I told her I had problems with that. She gave me no deadline (which at least your son DID!!!), but took it upon herself to speak to my book study conductor.

  Now, he knew, but he NEVER APPROACHED ME directly. And SHE never told me she had gone to him, either, until later. Brother Conductor went to Brother P.O., who then called on me at my home with his pioneer wife (I was close to them, they were my blood card contacts as I had an unbelieving mate, she was my Medical Advocate). NOTHING WAS SAID DURING THEIR VISIT BY THEM about the real purpose behind their visit. Although I did admit to "having some issues" -- which I would not discuss in front of the P.O.'s wife. They encouraged me to get back to meetings and informed me of the Memorial Date, which I already knew, and time -- which I did not (we share a Hall). It was not UNTIL I MENTIONED TO MY GIRLFRIEND THAT THEY HAD CALLED that she 'fessed up that she had spoken to "the elders".
  To her credit, when I asked her specifically WITH WHOM she had spoken and WHAT she had said, she told me straight. And after my non-appearance at the KH for another 2 weeks, I got the call requesting a meeting from the P.O.

  Many of you know that I opted to DA myself rather than wait around to be DF'd. That was important TO ME to make it clear who was rejecting whom.

  HOWEVER
  I had NO FAMILY LEFT in the Borg!!!

  So I would not presume to tell you how to react. But DO be aware, that wheels may be turning behind the scene of which you have NOT been apprised.

  Grovel, obfuscate, and KEEP YOUR FAMILY INTACT! It seems clear to me that's what you want at this point.

  My heart is achin' for ya, luv!
  outnfree
• 

  waiting

  howdy lmr,

  You've been given a bushel of excellent information and ideas. I hope you take them. I think a *battle plan* is necessary before going forward.

  Today my JW son told me that he had seen an email in our family account written to me from an exjw. It contained very little, but enough to let him know that I was in contact with outsiders about my doubts and feelings. I have private email for these correspondences, but through an unknown to me circumstance, ended up is the regular email.

  How old is your son?
  Why does he live with you?
  Is he paying rent if an adult?
  Who owns the computer?
  Does he have ms responsibilities in the KH?
  Does he work full time?
  Are you married?
  Has he ever sinned in the past like a normal kid? (mine)

  Please don't think you have to answer any of these questions here - that wasn't my intent. My intent was to put weight behind the question - how did he know which e-mail was from the xjw? Does he open *all* your e-mail in that account to check up on you?

  I think boundries have been crossed in your mother/son relationship. If he really only wanted to help you (because even in jw eyes, you've not sinned), he would have talked to you privately, imho. By forcing your hand to make you confess your seeming sin to elders - I personally think he's playing the part of a brother. Lording it over a lesser one - in this case his mother, a woman.

  If you read DreamMaster's thread about reading e-mails - the situation was between him & his wife, equals. You and your son are not equals in this family arrangement. You have the upper hand if you exercise it. If you wish to co-exist with your jw son - then he has to respect your privacy - even if you force him to.

  Do you read all his e-mail? Check his closets for porn? Smell his breath when he comes in at night? Listen to phone calls? Knock on the bathroom door asking why he's taking so long? Come into his room anytime you wish?

  I would think that if he wants his right to privacy - he has to give you yours, especially in your own home. Payback is hell.

  As for being less than perfect, (which I definitely am) I would tell my less than perfect son that I worry about him to and his indiscretions (and I would think hard about them all - even enlarging upon them) and that when I go to the elders, as he is forcing me to, I will confess my doubts (I like JT's idea about chronology - confuses everybody) and confess my detailed concerns about my son's sins also - and set up an appointment for him to speak with the elders about his temper/disgusting mannerisms/staying out late/heavy use of who-knows-what on the computer.

  Just to keep everybody's jw conscience on even keel. Of course, I tend to be a vengeful person when wronged un-necessarily. Perhaps you're a better person than I? But I hope you're not - if you are, at least realize you do have steps to take which can come out in your favor.

  Might do you well to sit down and write out several scenarios? Not where your son can tap in, however.

  waiting
• 

  LostMyReligion

  I really want to thank you all for your help. You have suggested many options which have merit. I have some serious contemplation to do to discover the appropriate amalgam of them which will be the best for me. The theocratic warfare approach certainly does have its appeal, but I am not very good at subterfuge, and I do feel a great need to be true to myself. However I also feel no obligation to reveal my inner life and private conversations to persons who have no right to pry into them. I will need to find the right balance of these two things. I would prefer to deflect any permnanent official actions, so maybe as some suggested, just generalities about struggling with faith will help. The trouble is that when I am face to face with elders, persons I know well, it is very difficult for me to maintain any kind of pretense. I will have to have very firm resolve.

  During our conversation, I asked my son why I must be punished for nothing more than talking to people, reading, and thinking. He said I had broken my baptism vows. I then told him that I did not vow loyalty to the org., as in the post 1986 vows, since I was baptised in 1974. I explained about the change and the reasons for it. I think he was surprised, but overall it made no dent in his resolve. He feels it is a test of his integrity to do this, and said blood relations did not matter in it. Yes, Francoise, it does seem he displays a self-righteous streak that amazes me. However as others noted (JT I think) the whole behavior is a quite predictible manifestation of WT programming.

  All my life, I have tried to do the right thing, and be a good sister. I feel like I have fallen off the edge of the earth, I cannot change what I know and feel now. Abd although learning it has caused much pain for me, I have gained freedom from imposed guilt and fear, which were grinding me into the ground emotionally for so long. How this will play out, time will tell, and probably very quickly. I'll let you know. Thanks again.

  LMR
• 

  LostMyReligion

  Waiting, I just read your reply.

  He is an adult 24 years old, married and lives on his own, a MS, and has no dirt I can use on him. He was always a model witness. The computer is in our house, but he and his wife sometimes get email on it, so they had free access. I do have private email for my correspondences, but this one got to the wrong one by mistake. However, as soon as he opened it and saw my name, he should have respected my privacy and not continued, and I told him this, but since he did it, the point doesn't seem to make much of an impact. Yes, I am married, and my husband knows of my activities. He has been inactive several years, and is still basically a believer. But he is willing to give me my freedom on this, though he does not understand or want to explore it himself. He too chastised our son for invasion of privacy, and told him not to back me into a corner.

  I agree, the payback scenario, has a certain emotional appeal, but my goal in this above all is to keep a relationship with him. We have always been very close, but I know that now that is irrevocalby changed, even if we are able to manage a continuation of polite contact. It breaks my heart, but I have spent my life doing the right things for others at my own expense, and at this point, I feel the time has finally come for me to do something for myself, to save my mental and emothioal health which was going to pieces as a witness. He has the power in his hands to push this or not, I just have to deal, but I cannot deny my own self and get back into the box of the WT by abandoning my new way of thinking.

  LMR
• 

  LovesDubs

  Hey I was thinking...if having CYBERSEX isnt really committing fornication, and you cant be DFd for it...why would you be in trouble for a letter contact with an EXJW when there was no actual conversation or contact? Where do they draw the line? And again...nobody knows who you are so who actually knows about this contact?
• 

  LostMyReligion

  LovesDubs,
  
  If cybersex isn't really sex, than cyberapostasy isn't really apostasy. Sounds good to me, but will the elders buy it. The person who wrote me the email is known to me in the real world, but is unknown to my son, and unless he printed the letter, it is now deleted, so there is no proof. However, I really do not want to get into a war of "I say...you say"

  LMR
• 

  Kent

  Why go to the elders at all? Nobody did anything wrong, and this damned youngster is makind "divisions", spreading false rumousr, and he doesn't have 2 witnesses.

  Let the bastard be DFd!

  Yakki Da

  Kent
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