The Truth About Christianity - Give your views

by Sirona 60 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Leolaia

  To me, this is the message of Jesus (based on the gospels and James):

  "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, it will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying, 'Here it is' nor 'There!' for behold! The kingdom of God is in the midst of you! If those who lead you say to you, 'See the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea', then the fish will precede you. Rather the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. The kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it. What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it. Recognize what is in your sight, for nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. You know how to interpret the apperance of the sky, but you have not recognized that which is before you and you do not know how to interpret this very moment.

  "But now the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom is being given to you, for the kingdom of God has come upon you. What is the kingdom of God like? And to what shall I compare it? The kingdom of God is like a mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his field; it is (barely visible as) the smallest of seeds, but when it has grown it is the greatest of shrubs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches. For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. The good man out of the good treasure of the heart produces good, and the evil man out of his evil heart produces evil. Those who hear this word and hold it fast in an honest and good heart bring forth fruit with patience. The kingdom of God is like yeast that a woman hides inside a large amount of flour, (it is not seen but eventually makes itself manifest) until all the dough is leavened. The kingdom is also like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had to buy that field. This is what the kingdom of God is like.

  "Do not be afraid, for you are not far from the kingdom of God; your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. Do not seek what you are to eat and what you are to drink, nor be of anxious mind about your body or what you shall put on. All the nations of the world seek these things and your Father knows that you need them. But if you instead seek his kingdom, all these things will be yours as well. Life is about more than just food or clothing. The kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness, peace, and joy. Give to the poor, sell your own material treasures, and you will have treasure in heaven. It is hard for the rich to enter the kingdom of God, for the first will be last and the last will be first. But truly I say to you, if you love your brother like your own soul, humble yourself like a child, and seek first the kingdom and righteousness, you will enter the kingdom of God. Seek and you will find, knock and it will be opened to you. But anyone who does not approach the kingdom like a little child will not enter it. Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of God. Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. Blessed are those who are persecuted for being righteous, for theirs is the kingdom of God. Leap for joy, for behold! Your reward is great in heaven! Give to the poor in secret and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. Fast in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. But also let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven. So whatever you wish that men do for you, do likewise for them. If you forgive men their trespasses, your Father in heaven will forgive you. Treat everyone with equal kindness; never repay evil with evil. All the commandments are summed up in this single command: You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, and mind, and soul, and you must love your neighbor as yourself. Follow this supreme command of scripture, for faith without good deeds is useless. Whoever practices and teaches my commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. And so I confer on you a kingdom, as my Father conferred one on me.
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  JamesThomas

  That, is beautiful Leolaia. There are no limits or boundaries to the Kingdom/God/Truth. The only space or separation between us and God, is between our ears. Sorry, as a non-Christian/religious person, I don't belong in this thread. j
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  Narkissos

  As I don't claim the "Christian" label anymore, my personal views are of little interest here. However I think an objective fact (yes!) does belong here: from the very beginning of Christianity there have been several types of Christianity struggling or putting up with each other. The wisdom-type Christianity Leolaia has very aptly described is one of them. Paul's and John's Christianities, for instance, are definitely different from it and from each other...
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  JamesThomas

  Perhaps Narkissos, it comes down to how much space we are willing to allow for God. I was raised a JW and my idea of God, my mental engraven image of God, was very small and human-like. I then left those teachings and looked into other Christian beliefs. The story may have changed a little, but the characters remained pretty much the same. If the Christian God was bigger than that of the Witnesses it wasn't by much. Then, a day came when an epiphany pierced my heart in the form of Christian Mysticism. God, now was seen as far, far more than before, and there was much rejoicing; but as time past I could sense God somehow still limited within the boundaries of my Christian mystic beliefs. What once seemed full, was now empty. Perhaps this is what you are speaking of. Different views within the same basic Christianity. Now, I have no beliefs and no religion too. And That, which I have come to simply call Beloved, has no boundaries either. j
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  FirstInLine

  My view of the Christianity of the Bible is that the Bible holds the historic Orthodox Christianity. Such main Doctrines include :Deity of Christ, implicit Trinity, One Salvation (not two like the Watchtower), One Judgement for all in a Universal Ressurrection, Physical Ressurrection of the Christ, Christ dying for the sins of the whole world on a Cross, and eternal concious damnation for Satan and his Demons.

  I am of two minds. I am very rational and scientific and reject "faith out of fear" type thinking. The Jesus of the Bible means alot to me and I cannot deny him. I believe that the Bible says the Universe and Earth are about 6000 yrs old when taken literally. I trust the lastest scientific models for the age of the universe, roughly 15-18 billion yrs at the least.

  At the same time I find stories such as the Flood to be irrational when taken literally. I do not believe the entire globe was covered by water. The fossil record does not support such a claim and there are too many reasons to list that it is irrational to believe. I do believe that Hell is a literal place however it was created for the Devil and his angels. I trust in the mercy and righteouss Judgements of the Christ. The bible is unclear IMO on human damnation.

  As far as I am concerned about Christianity, the Doctrines are contained in the bible and even though the bible may not be a perfect record of history, it should be the ultimate source of Doctrine for the Christian religion and I believe it has been fairly well preserved. The JWs, Mormons and other such cults are drastically heretical from Christianity in all there deviations. They have not posed a single objection that has served to actually open anyone's eyes. Their objections are convoluted, deceptive and usually posed with loaded questions that most elders IMO know the real answers to.

  My completely scientific mind has come up with these beliefs through observation:

  There is a creator to the universe.

  People object: If there is a god why does he let bad things happen to people?

  A-- there is no reason to insist that God necessarily knows about the human condition or that he can communicate with humans.

  B-- there is no reason to insist God can intervene in this Universe once it was set into motion.

  People object: If there is a god why is there no proof?

  A-- the proof is all around, people are asking for supernatural proof - see answers to previous objection

  Strictly speaking logically.

  EITHER **** There is a God. He/They exist in a "higher" universe that we are not able to understand and created our universe for reasons we cannot understand. He/They cannot contact us and probably are not aware of our existence. There will probably be no afterlife.

  OR**** There is a God. He/They are the ultimate Gamers. He/They created life on the Earth inlcuding Humans. He/They are aware of the Human condition but for his/their own reasons do not intervene to prevent human suffering. He/They do not intervene to make themselves or their intentions known readily. Its possible he/they have not started or helped any religions and enjoy seeing speculation of him/them swirl. In this scenario an afterlife is waiting and we will find out what it all meant.

  I am more inclined to believe the latter scenario scientifically speaking. This is because the first scenario does not allow for the creation of life. I do not believe life can develop apart from divine intervention and thus humans have a logical hope for an afterlife.
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  FirstInLine

  Loves_Truth,

  I feel the need to remind you that it is faith in Christ that saves not faith that the selected pages of catholic theologians are inspired by God. I defer to my previous post for more details concerning the true Doctrines of Christianity.
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  metatron

  Whatever might be said about the Bible or Christianity by skeptics, one fact should

  remain unchallenged:

  Nearly all worthwhile human progress is the outcome of Judeo-Christianity.

  Did Taoists invent the refrigerator or antibiotics? Did Islamists develop and expound the

  scientific method? Did Confucianists discover electronics?

  Generally, all progress in science - AND human rights comes only from the Judeo-Christian culture.

  I can't say exactly why - however, I believe it has to do with:

  emphasizing the worth of individual human life - even slaves

  establishing a sense of linear history - which moves progressively forward

  Whether God - or extraterrestrials thought this up, I can't say but clearly somebody

  was thinking way ahead.

  metatron
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  FirstInLine

  metatron,

  I have to disagree somewhat with your assessment. Nearly every civilization on Earth has made great contributions to human progress. Ironically, some of the greatest contributors were also some of the greatest hinderers. For instance, the Arabs made major accomplisments in Mathematics and other sciences, they however destroyed the bulk of the humanity's information when muslim radicals burned the Great Library at Alexandria.

  Judeo-Christian culture has also been a great hinderer to human progress. Following the collapse of the Roman empire great strides had been made. While the Muslims were buring the Alexandian Library the catholic church of burning people at the stake for scientific thinking. The period between 700 ad and 1400 ad was known as the DARK AGES for a reason. Never before in history did theocracy so dominate the landscape and virtually no progress was resumed until the Renaissance. The origins of such progress were not found in Judeo-Christianity but CLASSICAL GRECO-ROMAN philosophy and thinking.
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  Narkissos

  As a sobering thought, the kind of Western "progress" Metatron was writing about (Christianity being just one factor among many, as FirstInLine pointed out) also results in the worst threats ever on mankind and life (especially because of its tendency to globalization). I understand there is no way back, but I do hope we find other ways forward.

  JamesThomas: when I read you I always find myself agreeing with you -- apophatically, for I also realize that along this line I have nothing to say. Reminds me of the Buddha's Rose Sermon...
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  frankiespeakin

  "Man is the only animal with the one true religion; dozens of them!" Mark Twain.

  My veiw about religion in general.