"I will tell you why you don't believe" (page 2)

itsallgoodnow

LOL oh, so that's what happened to me? and I had thought my eyes were now opened and I now could see clearly, now that the wool is lifted.

Pretty smug. Sadly, this JW will deal with her "gift from god" for a while longer...

shamus

Haughty is the word. You should have told her that she reminds you of a Pharisee.

Elsewhere

Wow... so the bottom line is this: I don't believe because I don't believe?

funkyderek

"Belief in the truth is a divine gift from God. He opens our eyes. Now that you have stopped going, he has taken it away from you, so you don' t believe"

Like Abaddon, I am unable to see much difference between the above and:

If you mean belief in God, I'd say that I think that perhaps for whatever reason your purpose in life isn't related to belief in a deity. I mean, some people are better off not distracted by beliefs in God and therefore are more able to focus on other things to the benefit of everyone around them. E.g. if not believing is necessary for you to focus on some important research / work (which may be hindered if you did believe in a god)

In neither case does the believer try to reason with the unbeliever, or even claim that the unbeliever's reasoning is faulty. In both cases, belief is not based on reason or on any conscious process but rather as (broadly speaking) the will of God, either as "a divine gift from God" or "your purpose in life".

It is insulting and deeply frustrating when someone explains my skepticism in such a way. I do not believe in gods because I find no evidence to support the existence of such entities. If the reason I can find no such evidence is because some hypothetical god(ess(es) etc.) control(s) my beliefs, then I can be little more than a puppet dancing to the whims of a divine joker, or a blind fool awaiting a Damascene conversion.

Sirona

FunkyDerek

I suppose I should have said that Abaddon didn't believe because Abaddon refuses to believe in such things without (what he considers to be) enough evidence.

Like Abaddon, I am unable to see much difference between the above and:
If you mean belief in God, I'd say that I think that perhaps for whatever reason your purpose in life isn't related to belief in a deity. I mean, some people are better off not distracted by beliefs in God and therefore are more able to focus on other things to the benefit of everyone around them. E.g. if not believing is necessary for you to focus on some important research / work (which may be hindered if you did believe in a god)
In neither case does the believer try to reason with the unbeliever, or even claim that the unbeliever's reasoning is faulty. In both cases, belief is not based on reason or on any conscious process but rather as (broadly speaking) the will of God, either as "a divine gift from God" or "your purpose in life".

I wouldn't say that Abaddon had faulty reasoning - his reasoning does not appear to be faulty. I have not said that Abaddon has not got divine favour. The woman was suggesting that my divine "gift" had been taken away from me based on my actions, I suggested that Abaddon's disbelief is NOTHING to do with him not being approved of by God, and more to do with him being "himself" in this life. In fact, the more you consider what I actually said, the more you'll see how different my comments were to the JW's.

I say Abaddon is not "condemned" and is just as enlightened as the rest of us, and you both think I'm condemning him just like the JW condemned me?

I'd say that you are doing what you seem to tend to do - that is lump all religious people into one group. You make no real distinction between the JW and me because in your eyes were both "stupid" for believing in anything....right? There are some beliefs which do not condemn others, which are not fundamentalist and which therefore don't harm people. Perhaps you should be distinguishing between ordinary "believers" and those who are part of a damaging cult, instead of suggesting we're essentially the same. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater they say.

Sirona

It is insulting and deeply frustrating when someone explains my skepticism in such a way. I do not believe in gods because I find no evidence to support the existence of such entities. If the reason I can find no such evidence is because some hypothetical god(ess(es) etc.) control(s) my beliefs, then I can be little more than a puppet dancing to the whims of a divine joker, or a blind fool awaiting a Damascene conversion

Funky Derek

Just another point. I'm sorry if you feel I have insulted you. I would suggest however that you took what I was saying the wrong way.

The part that I bolded, above, does not represent what I was saying. I was saying that actually it isn't God who would choose to make you "see" or "not see". I was trying to get across that I think that the universe is evolving and that we are part of that development. Therefore, it is necessary and beneficial for different people to "specialise" (for want of a better word) in different things. Not better, or more noble things, just different things. Where perhaps I'm lacking, yours or Abaddon's thinking processes are required and helpful. Because of "who you are" you can achieve different things (things I might not be able to achieve) We can't all think the same right? Similarly, I bring a different perspective, being religious. Not better, just different, and (I think) necessary.

Sirona

drwtsn32

Wow... the arrogance of what this JW said to you is stunning. Yet at the same time... I'm not surprised. I wonder when a JW relative will say this to me...

Fe2O3Girl

Pshaw!

I'd love to know who said that to you. Actually, I can imagine a couple of candidates.........PM me.

Sirona

Fe - you have a PM

I did actually tell her that when I stopped attending I didn't do evil things, I simply stopped attending. Therefore I don't believe God would remove his gift because I'd stopped going to the hall. I also said that I think that there are a lot of good people "out in the world" and that I don't believe God is so evil that he will destroy them when the big A comes. She agreed it is all about our hearts.

I finished off saying I've never been happier and I've got many good (carefully selected) friends now who won't abandon me if I don't attend the KH.

I wished I'd said more - you know, brought up the UN or whatever, but I was in a rush and knew she was die hard JW

Sirona

Farkel

I someone told me if I would like to know why I don't believe anymore, I would respectfully answer:

"No, I already know: your religion is big pile of shit. Have a nice day."

Farkel

"I will tell you why you don't believe"

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