American Lawyers: Help on DF case!

by Narkissos 22 Replies latest jw friends

  • mustang
    mustang

    "Sad, but true. It is an article of their faith. You "signed the articles going in", so you agree with them. That is WTS reasoning on this and the courts hold that as OK."

    "In Belgium, we sign nothing. So we don't agree with disfellowshipping and its consequences."

    Zacharie,

    I would have replied earlier, but I was in Asia. The JWD access comes and goes over there.

    We sign nothing over here (in the USA) either. Anyway, I believe that "signed the articles going in" is what you replied to with the statement "we sign nothing".

    I shall clarify: In the days of wooden ships, if you joined a sailing vessel as a crew member, you "signed the articles" (the rules of ship) and were bound to follow the orders of the Master of the vessel. Essentially, his word was law on the high seas.

    In a similar manner, WHEN YOU ARE BAPTIZED, you have "signed the articles" in effect. Literally signing anything doesn't happen or have to happen. But the act of baptism, symbolizing dedication and so forth is the overt equivalent act to signing away your rights to certain things. You do remember a speech that everyone has to go through about the importance of the act of baptism and what it means and symbolizes, right??

    (So, "signed the articles going in" is a figure of speech of a nautical turn.)

    It has been established in American courts that you have WAIVED certain rights by being baptized. Essentially, you have no right or recourse to go against the findings of a Church Tribunal (that is a Judicial Committee, as far as JW's are concerned).

    This is where the Church Law "shield" comes into play. You cannot take back the claim to not be excommunicated/disfellowshipped if you have been baptized. By being baptized you have VOLUNTARILY SUBMITTED to the Church Law of JW's which allows you to be DF'd.

    Add the conflict of Jurisdictions/Venues (the Secular Courts of the land have their Jurisdiction and the Church Tribunal/Judicial Committee has another Jurisdiction) and that is why the DF'ing cannot generally be countermanded in the US. Essentially, the US is or will be no help to the European matters in question.

    (Failing the several possible appeals of a JW J.C., YOU CANNOT TAKE THE MATTER TO A SECULAR COURT [Municipal Court, State Superior Court, Federal Court, US Supreme Court and so forth]. Once you have failed those CHURCH TRIBUNAL/J.C. appeals, you have EXHAUSTED YOUR REMEDIES AND THERE IS NO FURTHER RECOURSE.

    That excepts an appeal to God or direct DIVINE INTERVENTION; this brings up about the only other possibility: start your own Church and claim the DF'ing never happened. The WTS can't do anything about this, as they have already asserted the Church Law shields: the Earthly/Secular Courts will see this as a "catfight between two churches" and will definitely decide that the Secular Court doesn't have any Jurisdiction in this Venue!!!! Nor do they want anything to do with it!!!)

    Counter-question(s): Do you not get baptized in Belgium, though? Is that done differently? Do JW's in Belgium not follow the WTS? Do Df'ings occur in Belgium as they do in the US?? Do they rise up against DF'ing? I am curious on those turns of the phrase.

    Mustang

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    Bumping this travesty of justice to the top.

  • nonjwspouse
    nonjwspouse

    I also wonder how any underage child can legally "sign" the articles going in?

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