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Why is the religious right in bed with Israel?
by Simon 52 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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blacksheep
. I have heard many religious groups profess that the jews are still the chosen race including pat robertson who was trying to raise money to send more jews to Israel because as he stated " those who bless Israel will be blessed ', as it says in the old testament , I agree with SS , how stupid could people be ? Yes I was pretty amazed at how GW jr. changed his stance from wanting to see a palistinian state to support for Israel and the war on terror now including palistine after 9-11. Why is the religious right in bed with Israel is definately tied to some religious belief that God will return to Israel and destroy all her enemies . Some time you should check out people like Pat Robertson or Zola Levitt
Well, if this is an excercise in trying to understand the likes of Pat Robertson, I'll pass. Why even bother to give these crackpots the time of day????
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grows1
With the continuing missteps, shining of "new light" to explain all of the "old light"bulbs blowing out, the mental gymnastics needed to decipher this weeks reinvention of last weeks mistatements, the UN issue, the pedophilia issue, the stocks in war companies issue, the lies, lies, lies, etc with the WTBTS, who has time for Pat Robertson or Zola Levitt?????
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heathen
blacksheep-- I assure you I'm not a member of the 700 club but sometimes while channel surfing I run accross what appears to be a news report and then Pat Robertson shows up trying to rationalize everything according to his belief system. I just am so bewildered as to why a christian would be so emphatic about people who wouldn't give him the time of day or worship in the same way but somehow it's important to give them money to move to Israel.
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wednesday
crazydrinker 151, how nice to see u. I haven't seen u post in a while, or maybe i'm not reading the threads u post on.
I have relatives and such that belong to mainstream religion, and yeru is correct, they do believe( at least that is what their doctrine says that the prophecy in the Bible concerning Israel will be fulfilled upon literal Israel.
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abbagail
Blondie asked: BTW who was in charge in that area in 1948? Who set up Israel as a nation?
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It's a loooong story, so here's a few links I saved a while back (which I possibly got off this board, I don't remember) outlining the historical development of Israel from Day One thru 1997. Having known nothing about Israel's history, except thru the eyes of the WT and OT, I found all of this quite fascinating. I saved it in one long email, 338k's, if anyone wants a copy, PM me. GRITS
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/5606/FM/E17.htm#ZIONISMMiddle Ages to the Holocaust: http://westy.jtwn.k12.pa.us/users/mjr/me3.htmlTimeline of Zionism: http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Zionism From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, covering 1861 to 1948.
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/waraqa/palhis.htmlFall 1995, Volume 6, No. 1 , History of the Golan: http://world.std.com/~camera/docs/cmr61/golan.htmlwhich covers from Early Biblical Period: Before 953 thru 1995.
November 2, 1917: http://www.mideastweb.org/mebalfour.htmHow did the Zionists acquire land in Palestine?http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_early_palestine_zionists_land.phpCritique Of The Jewish Religion: Donation the Jews Palestine For Ever: http://en.falastiny.net/books/cjr/donation.htm This was hard to read (weird English) and I did not really understand clearly due to the strange English (translation from another language maybe?)
Associations, in Europe and the United States, of persons interested in agricultural settlement of Jews in Palestine and in the connection of Jews with the future of the Holy Land: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=3D481&letter=3DCNEWS ARTICLES ON RESTORATION OF ISRAEL: http://stargazers.home.pages.at/endworld/signs/news/israel_nws.htmThe Anglo-Jewish Association established 1871, In over 130 years, the AJA has had an illustrious history, The Story of the AJA: http://www.anglojewish.co.uk/Blank%20Page%201.htm
Before Their Diaspora, PART I: http://www.jerusalemiloveyou.net/article.php3?id_article=3D2
Before Their Diaspora, PART II: http://www.jerusalemiloveyou.net/article.php3?id_article=3D18Here's a portion of CHRONOLOGY from one of those articles showing who was 'in charge' in 1948:
Ottoman Empire- 1831-40 Egyptians seize the Golan.
- 1840 Turks regain power.
- 1880-84 Turkish government settles Muslim Circassian refugees in the Golan to ward off Bedouin robbers. Other settlers in the area include Sudanese, Algerians, Kurds, Turkomans, and Arabs from Samaria.
- 1886 First modern Jewish settlement is established when Jews from Tiberias and Safed purchase land from the Ramtaniya village and found Golan BeBashan east of the Sea of Galilee.
- 1887 Jews from Tiberias and Safed purchase land from Bedouin town of Bir Ashkum.
- 1891 Baron Edmund de Rothschild purchases 18,000 acres of land to found a Jewish settlement. Not until the end of the French Mandate are the Jews stripped of official title to land in the Golan.
- 1899 The Pasha of Damascus expels the Jews from Rothschild's settlement, but even after the 1923 Anglo-French Accord the Palestine Jewish Colonization Association administers the Baron's property.
- 1908 Jews settle in the Bet-Zayyada Valley.
- 1917 The British conquer Palestine and drive out the Turks.
- 1919 The map of the Land of Israel submitted by the Zionist delegation to the Paris Peace Conference includes Ramat ha Golan. The Syrian National Congress demands the unification of Syria and installs Faisal as king.
- 1920 The Jews are forced out of Golan in the face of Arab rioting. Britain and France divide up the former Ottoman Empire giving France a mandate over Syria. The French order Faisal to leave Syria.
- 1923 Having discovered the Golan lacks oil but that the Mosul area in northern Syria is rich in oil, the British cede the Golan to France in return for Mosul. Traditionally Mosul was part of Syria while the Golan was part of the Galilee. In return for the Golan, France relinquishes any claim to Palestine.
- 1944 The Golan becomes part of the Republic of Syria. Sunni Muslims, Circassians, Druze, Alawites, a small Christian minority and other small groups live in the region. With the end of the French Mandate, all Jewish land ownership on the Golan is nullified.
- 1949 Armistice agreement between Israel and Syria after three months of negotiations.
- 1948-67 Syria uses the Golan Heights as a military stronghold from which to attack Jewish communities in the Hula Valley.
- 1951 Syria moves forces into the Banyas area in the Golan, which is supposed to remain a demilitarized zone.
- 1967 Six Day War. Under attack, Israel moves against Syrian forces in the Golan gaining control of the plateau. Kibbutz Meron Golan is founded.
- 1967-73 Jews establish communities in the Golan and create nature reserves and agricultural, industrial and tourist enterprises.
- 1973 Yom Kippur War. After repulsing a surprise attack by the Syrians, Israel establishes a new defense line 20 miles from Damascus.
- 1974 Under the Syrian-Israeli Disengagement Agreement, Israel withdraws from all territory taken in the Yom Kippur War as well as from Kuneitra, acquired in 1967.
- 1981 Israel enacts the Law of Ramat haGolan stating that "The law and jurisdiction and administration of the State will apply to the Golan." Israel thereby replaces military with civilian rule.
- 1995 There are 32 Jewish communities, including the city of Qazrin, four Druze villages, one Sunni village and one Alawite village on the Golan.
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abbagail
Ditto to what Yeru, Brummie and a few others said about Christians believing that God still has an everlasting covenant with Israel to this day, and they believe that is why the modern-day Israel was re-established, in fulfillment of Bible prophecies, and that the "last days" began at that time. Flip on any religious channel anywhere and you will see this discussed quite often by many pastors, lecturers, etc. (to name a few I've seen: John Hagee, Perry Stone/Manna Fest, Hal Lindsey of course, Jack Van Impe, Hilton Sutton, etc.) They believe the Israel prophecies in a literal way and that, yes, as someone pointed out, that when Jesus comes, he will enter through the Eastern Wall and stand his literal feet on the Mount of Olives causing a great earthquake (splitting the ground in two -- which, btw, I just saw last night a show about this and they said faultlines have been found in modern times right under that spot); and that Jesus will reign on earth for a 1,000 years thereafter. They also believe the 144,000 are literal fleshly Jewish men, as Revelation describes, who will conduct the greatest final 'witnessing' in the days of the Antichrist, etc. And, as many of you already know, they also believe the "Mark of the Beast" will be literal 'computer ID chips' forced on everyone by the Antichrist, to be implanted in the hand or forehead, etc. -- A literal interpretation of Israel prophecies SEEMS to make more sense to me than the WT's "spiritual" interpretations re: New Jerusalem/Spiritual Israel/144,000; etc. Just my 2. Grits
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Abaddon
FiL
If one totally polarises the situation so;
- you had a large Islamic lobby group in the USA
- so that the Holocaust was targetted on Muslims
- so you had a Muslim nation with a rebelious Jewish population surrounded by Jewish nations
...then I am convinced you'd have the situation reversed in every possible way.
As regards friendly and democratic, well, there's interesting reading here;
http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-isr/index
... you'll have to click through to see the sorry state of both Israel and Palestine's human-rights records, but I think the point I am trying to make is that people who are tyranised will despair and rebel. That fact is a different thing to approving of the deaths of innocent people, but the second is something that is following because of the inevitability of the first.
As for land, I think you'd be interested in looking at the issue of land, and that of water;
http://www.sundayherald.com/28790
Israel bans new West Bank wells
Israeli infrastructure minister Effi Eitam last week banned Palestinians from drilling for water in the West Bank and put a freeze on the issue of permits for future drillings.
The decision will have a severe effect on Palestinian agriculture, which relies mainly on water drilled from the ground, and will make it difficult for some villagers to access drinking water. Agriculture is already reeling from the amount of land confiscated or destroyed by Israel and a recent ban on Palestinians harvesting their olive crop.
Many villages, some 30% of which have never been connected to the water network, usually have to take drinking water from ground resources either because they cannot afford to buy it from tankers, or because, due to Israel's policy of closure, water tankers cannot get into the villages.
It also adds insult to an already discriminatory injury. Israelis get between between five and seven times as much water as Palestinians, and they get priority access. When supplies in the semi-arid region are low, as during the summer months, the Israeli water company, Mekorot, closes the valves which supply Palestinian towns and villages so that Israeli supplies will not be affected.
In practice this means that Israeli settlers, living in illegal settlements on the West Bank, get their swimming pools topped up and their lawns watered while Palestinians living in villages next to them on whose land the settlements have usually been built can go without enough water for drinking and cooking.
Eitam said he was imposing the drilling ban because the Palestinian Authority (PA) is running a water intifada against Israel by failing to build water purification facilities in the hope of polluting Israel's ground water. He added that the PA was enabling Palestinians, mainly in Areas A and B [under Palestinian and Israeli security control respectively, according to the Oslo peace accords], to carry out unauthorised drillings in order to steal water from the state of Israel.
Palestinians say this argument is illogical and confused. The PA has effectively been destroyed by the government of which Effi Eitam is a member. In addition, money raised from Palestinians in the form of taxes, which should go to the PA, is being withheld by Israel. It is not clear how the PA is supposed to build water purification facilities under these conditions.
Why Eitam should think the Palestinians would want to pollute the ground-water resources when they too drink from them is also unclear. More importantly, the charge that Palestinians are trying to steal water from Israel and the settlements is, they say, verging on the ridiculous.
Under international law the West Bank's water resources the Mountain Aquifer and the Jordan river basin are joint resources to be shared by Israel and Palestine on the principles of equitable and reasonable use.
However, Yehezkel Lein Ð a researcher with B'Tselem, the Israel centre for human rights in the Occupied Territories says that since occupying the West Bank in 1967, Israel has exploited its water resources, which it had no access to before the war, to benefit Israel and its illegal settlements over the Palestinians.
Once Israel had conquered the West Bank, he says, it immediately confiscated almost all the wells, banned the drilling of new ones and put quotas on how much water could be drawn from existing ones. The amount of water allocated to Palestinians was capped at 1967 levels and has remained unchanged des pite the growth in the Palestinian population.
Israel now uses 79% of the Mountain Aquifer and all of the Jordan river basin, bar a small quantity that it sells to Palestinians in the Gaza strip. The result, as the discrepancy in water consumption shows, is neither equitable nor reasonable.
Many commentators say Israel invaded and occupied the West Bank and the water-rich Syrian Golan Heights in 1967 precisely because it wanted access to the water, and add that this is why Israel is so reluctant to give back those territories in a land-for-peace deal. Jad Issac, director of the Applied Research Institute of Jerusalem, says more than half of the water Israel uses comes from the territories occupied in 1967.
More recently, Israel has threat ened to bomb pumping stations in southern Lebanon if the Lebanese continue with plans to divert parts of the Wazzani river, which originates in Lebanese territory. Oil may make the headlines in the Middle East, but water is the resource that Middle Eastern countries fight over most of the time. 27 October 2002
You said;
If you want to be honest ask yourself this. "Who is more likely to want to live peacefully amonst their neighboors, the Palestinians and other Muslim/Arabs with the Israelis or the Israelis?"
Quite frankly I think the Israelis should have their children raised by Palestinians and the Palestinians should have their children raised by Israelis. Unrealistic I know, but it's the only thing I can think of that would make some of the people treat people of the opposite religion like human beings.
I agree that the Palestinian issue is a tough one, however to act like the Palestinians are just happless victims rewrites history. Isreal at times causes collateral damage when targeting a terrorist cell, or leader. The Palestinians SEEK collateral damage when they attack Israel in marketplaces and school buses.
It's dispicable, but given the range of viable millitary options they have at their disposal and the fundamentalist Mulim's belief in martyrdom (which Christianity also had several hundred years ago, remember), the use of suicide bombers is a tragic eventuality.
You drop a glass from 6 feet onto a sharp edge; it will break, because of the inevitable consequences of the actions of the person who dropped it. To act like chains of political actions do not have inevitable consequence is rather unrealistic.
To Israel's critics: What would you have Israel do? Do you really think that the Arabs/Muslims will ever be satisfied until Israel and the Jews are destroyed? I don't, unless we do something to stop the hatred that is festered in those countries.
Well, by backing Israel to the extent that all the Arab countries in the area feel that the Western powers are biased and Israeli influenced, most European countries and the USA have just made the situation worse; remember, people haven't been blowing themselves up that long, it took years of diplomatic intervention by the Western powers to get that to happen... so what ever we do in the future, we should stop doing what we've been doing in the past as it doesn't work.
GRITS
Ditto to what Yeru, Brummie and a few others said about Christians believing that God still has an everlasting covenant with Israel to this day, and they believe that is why the modern-day Israel was re-established, in fulfillment of Bible prophecies, and that the "last days" began at that time.
Well, the Muslims have their religious nuts, and the Christians have theirs, remember the stats;
- 44% of Americans believe god gave Israel to the Jews
36% of Americans believe that the modern state of Israel is a fulfilment of the Biblical Prophecies relating to the 2nd coming
I still feel the above is different from the assertion that most Christians think Israel is still a chosen people; I don't know one who does.
Please remember some of these people are clueless enough to believe that the "sign of the beast" can be seen in barcodes (the guidebars at the ends and in the middle of the barcode look like the bars for the digit 6, thus 666 can be asserted to appear on every item with a barcode.
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heathen
Nice work grits. I for one have been wanting to learn more about the situation pertaining to the state of Israel . If they actually bought and paid for the land it kinda makes it a little different story. Here in the US it certainly would .
Abaddon--- I think you should go out and ask some church leaders and such and you will see what we are talking about . I hear it all the time that jews are still some sort of chosen nation . The televangelists often discuss the issue .The bible itself can be interpreted that way with the 144k from the 12 tribes of Israel being sealed by God . I don't agree at all with it . Jesus clearly had no further interest in Israel so he sent his apostles out to the nations .
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blacksheep
They believe the Israel prophecies in a literal way and that, yes, as someone pointed out, that when Jesus comes, he will enter through the Eastern Wall and stand his literal feet on the Mount of Olives causing a great earthquake (splitting the ground in two -- which, btw, I just saw last night a show about this and they said faultlines have been found in modern times right under that spot); and that Jesus will reign on earth for a 1,000 years thereafter.
Well, thank God I'm not totally up to speed on these interesting "truths". Their theories make JW believes actually sound more PLAUSIBLE. And, funny, the JW's undeniably have an anti-semitic history and trend.
Again, I wouldn't give these idiots the time of day.