Comments You Won't Hear at the 3-28-04 WT Study

by blondie 41 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Scully

  Gosh, there is just so much good stuff here!! Where to begin.... where to begin?

  What is the moral climate like in the KH? A haven for pedophiles, who prey on children.

  How could it be anything BUT a haven for pedophiles? All a child molester has to do is get disfellowshipped, say they are sorry, and get reinstated in order to be called Brother? (or Sister?) again, in order to be welcomed back with open arms. The elders assign them to a Book Study group in someone's private home. They take advantage of the congregation's forgiveness, the Book Study host's hospitality, trust and friendship, and just get sneakier and more subtle in the way they gain their targets' trust in order to feed their perverse sexual appetites. If they get caught again, they can be disfellowshipped again, and reinstated again when they claim to be repentant. The cycle starts all over again. Wash, Rinse, Repeat. When is the WTS going to figure out that the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour and that pedophiles are rarely sorry for the crime they have committed, but are only "sorry" that they got caught? That is not repentance. Which parent wants to look their child in the eyes and tell them "We're so sorry, we thought he was repentant"? Yet every time a pedophile is reinstated into a congregation, the elders are volunteering every child of JWs as guinea pigs in a sick and twisted experiment set in homes used as Book Study centres, Kingdom Halls, circuit assemblies, district conventions, where-ever that pedophile may go and present him or herself as a JW in good standing.

  Personally, I would rather associate with fornicators, adulterers and people who look at pornography, than with someone who has a history of repeated sexual offenses against children.

  ***

  Rbi8 Matthew 18:6 ***

  6But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who put faith in me, it is more beneficial for him to have hung around his neck a millstone such as is turned by an ass and to be sunk in the wide, open sea.

  Does it sound like Jesus was willing to extend mercy and forgiveness repeatedly to someone who harmed "little ones"?

  Sexual misconduct, including; adultery, fornication, and
  other forms of "por.ne'a.."

  Uncleanness

  includes an intentional momentary touching of sexual parts or caressing of breasts. ( I Thess. 4:7, 8; 1 Tim. 5:1,2)
  

  Such minor uncleanness can be handled at the discretion of an elder or two; it does not require a judicial
  hearing.

  Try telling a girl who is not allowed to date or allow boys her own age to take liberties with her, that having a grown man intentionally momentarily touch her in a sexual manner that it's a "minor" offense. Try telling that to her parents.

  Oh and this, I thought, was rather comical:

  Isaac and Rebekah were observed "having a good time" together, and it was evident to onlookers that they were not merely brother and sister.

  Yes, Evidently? the forefather (and foremother) of God's Chosen People? were exhibitionists. And the onlookers were into voyeurism. But that's nothing at all like looking at pornography nowadays.

  Love, Scully
• 

  nobody told me

  How many witness parents would have a fit if their grade school kids were discussing oral and ######## in the classroom? Yet it is O.K. for the old men in New York to discuss it in an open setting via the watchtower. Don't get me wrong I'm for sex ed, but the Watchtower has no business discussing it with your children. Besides, the Bible does not comment on oral or ########, so why have a Bible discussion of it?
• 

  nilfun

  Yeah, what Nobody told me said.

  Don't take the kiddies to this one. Sheesh.
• 

  Nosferatu

  Oh, have I got a few things to add!

  They are toying with it, teetering on the verge, disregarding the Bible’s warning. Instead of safeguarding the heart, they are poisoning it with vivid images that may take years to fade from memory.

  Personally, I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday, nevermind a Porno that I saw a few months ago. One thing that results from the WTS teaching this is men and women are taught to be afraid of the natural, naked human body. When I was living with my ex, I was afraid to touch her. I was afraid to look at her. This obviously didn't help our relationship.

  12 It is particularly vital to "flee from fornication" during courtship. That period should be a joyful time, full of hope and anticipation, but some young couples mar it by toying with immorality. In the process, they deprive each other of the best foundation for a good marriage—a relationship based on unselfish love, self-control, and obedience to Jehovah God.

  I love that last foundation element for a good marriage. In my opinion, many JW relationships are based ALONE on their obedience to Jehovah God The WTS. We've seen many examples on this message board alone; all the people who's relationships or marriages have been destroyed because they discover that Jehovah God The WTS is filled with lies, hypocrisy, half-truths, etc.

  One Christian couple (don’t they mean JW couple?) engaged in immoral behavior during their courtship. After they married, the wife admitted that her conscience tormented her, evening ruining the joy of her wedding day.

  Who's fault is that? Who made her feel guilty? It sure as hell wasn't her husband! Perhaps it was the WTS who implanted this idea in her head? Then hearing it repeatedly at the meetings isn't going to make her feel any better.

  Personally, I feel there is a difference between "toying" during the dating period where no commitment has been made and after being engaged. Women, do you want to get that close physically with someone you aren’t sure you want to marry? Well, if you do, be sensible, use protective birth control. There is no point of taking a chance of dying because of having sex with someone you aren’t emotionally involved with.

  You touch on a good point here, Blondie. One thing that I've noticed with the WTS and youth (including newly married couples) is how quickly the female gets pregnant. How often does the WTS focus on birth control? JW parents are encouraged to pull their children out of Sex Education classes. The WTS claims this encourages sexual appetites, when in fact it teaches them on how to control birth. In my opinion, many young JWs dive into sex uneducated.

  That seek to reduce the number of unwanted teenage pregnancies have encouraged youths to engage in deviant sexual behavior that does not result in pregnancy.

  This is exactly what I'm pointing at. "Sex Education" does not translate into "go out and fuck like a wild beast running on pure hormones"

  If we deliberately flirt with someone, we probably do not know just how that person is affected. He or she may develop expectations about courtship and even an eventual marriage.

  Outside the WTS, flirting is quite common, and often harmless. I doubt anyone outside of the WTS thinks about marriage when they're flirted with. Now, where did the thoughts of marriage resulting from flirting come from? It's not instinct, it's the Watchtower!
• 

  DevonMcBride

  The Watchtower Society is competing with hormones.

  Devon
• 

  OHappyDay

  Blondie, your research is incomparable!

  As I indicated in the thread I started while awaiting your excellent post ("Beware the Pornographic WT Study"), I thought this WT study lesson was unncessarily graphic in places, given the audiences at our meetings.

  And I continue to wonder about the emphasis of late on masturbation, something the Bible does not mention at all. Surely it was known from ancient times. Maybe it is a problem at Bethel?

  Once not broad enough in its definition of porneia, I think the Society has overdone it in the other direction, wanting to make everything sexual without marriage "porneia." Though the word originally was tied to houses of prostitution, words change over time in all languages. Defining it in relation to what may occur in a "house of prostitution" (Where? Among the Greeks? Among the Jews? Among the Romans?) is just too elastic.
• 

  talesin

  I read this,

  Is this reference to a mother (the WTS) giving instructions to a son (JWs)?

  and thought you might find this interesting,

  from a tract called The Coming World Regeneration, by Jehovah's Witnesses of Canada

  '...a new righteous world was absolutely certain to be established under the Seed of God's "woman". The Seed is the holy One whom God brings out of his heavenly universal organization. God's "woman", from the body of which He produces that Seed, is His heavenly organization ... Who will operate the "new earth" organization? It will be the visible representatives of the heavenly part of the regenerated world of righteousness. Those representatives were long ago prophesied to be the faithful and approved servants, prophets and witness of Jehovah God of olden times before Christs death and resurrection such men from Abel to John the Baptist ... As King of the New World, the Prince of Peace will appoint them as his children to be "princes in all the earth". (Isaiah 9:6,7; Hebrews 11:35; Psalm 45:16)'

  (bold is mine)

  talesin

  (edit to enlarge text it was too small )
• 

  blondie

  I say they are wrong... flirting is harmless

  Perhaps, Elsewhere, in the world at large. But the WTS is a pressure cooker. With singlewomen outnumbering single men 3 to 1, the desire to get married and have a family, and the fact that single women have no status in the Borg, JW women start early and young trying to attract a mate. They are serious. The young men on the other hand have the pick of the litter and a great deal of power.

  ``S.O.S! We're bailing as fast as we can, but are drowning under the tsunami of `hanky-panky claims' flooding the service office!''

  More likely, the congregation elders are swamped. I can remember back in my "sexual revolution" era teenage years, the elders said we were burning out the elders with all the JCs.

  Scully, excellent points

  How could it be anything BUT a haven for pedophiles? All a child molester has to do is get disfellowshipped, say they are sorry, and get reinstated in order to be called Brother? (or Sister?) again, in order to be welcomed back with open arms. The elders assign them to a Book Study group in someone's private home. They take advantage of the congregation's forgiveness, the Book Study host's hospitality, trust and friendship, and just get sneakier and more subtle in the way they gain their targets' trust in order to feed their perverse sexual appetites. If they get caught again, they can be disfellowshipped again, and reinstated again when they claim to be repentant. The cycle starts all over again. Wash, Rinse, Repeat. When is the WTS going to figure out that the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour

  and that pedophiles are rarely sorry for the crime they have committed, but are only "sorry" that they got caught? That is not repentance. Which parent wants to look their child in the eyes and tell them "We're so sorry, we thought he was repentant"? Yet every time a pedophile is reinstated into a congregation, the elders are volunteering every child of JWs as guinea pigs in a sick and twisted experiment set in homes used as Book Study centres, Kingdom Halls, circuit assemblies, district conventions, where-ever that pedophile may go and present him or herself as a JW in good standing.

  This is the concern I expressed to my molester's JC as they reproved him privately. I knew he was not sorry. He never apologized to his victims, only the one the elders required him to.

  Nobody told me and Nilfun, I did know anything about oral sex/sodomy until those articles about sex practices between married couples.

  Don't get me wrong I'm for sex ed, but the Watchtower has no business discussing it with your children. Besides, the Bible does not comment on oral or ########, so why have a Bible discussion of it?

  Do you think JW parents would talk to their children? Mine didn't. But there has to be a middle ground.

  Nosferatu, the problem is that few talk about sex at all, in or out of the WTS; do it, yes; talk about it, no. This is where problems come in with child molesters. Some knowledge is necessary to protect children from molesters.

  Devon, what can you say about an organization that was started by a man who got married but took a vow not to have sex.

  OHD, graphic, sort of, nothing compared to the TV shows I've watched lately or else I'm just too sensitive. Masturbation has long been a bugaboo of the WTS since Knorr's day and his tirades about it. There has been a lot of talk about masturbation using the internet. I know of 3 brothers who lost privileges in the last 6 months.

  Talesin,

  Yes, I have seen the rank and file referred to the children of the anointed. They use that authority usurping Christ's place. He is the one who gave up his life for us.

  Blondie
• 

  JeffT

  Witnesses are OBSESSED with sex. I've been going to a maistream church for fifteen years since we got out and I haven't heard anything like this even once.

  I suspect the elders are going to be getting bombarded with questions, this article seem very ambigous about what married people can and can't do. And of course the average dub couple can't be allowed to figure out for themselves what they like and don't like. What's next for discussion, French kissing?
• 

  galaxy7

  How do they know what happens in a house of prostitution?

  So is it alright to do these things after your married?

  Good article as usual Blondie