Response from my elders about UN (page 2)

garybuss

It's been a waste of my time to try to reason with a weasel or to get into a pissing contest with a skunk.

Bluegrass Tom

Summer:

Keep your eye on the ball. Here are the facts to keep in mind if you pursue this in discussion again:

1. There has been no change in documentation. The documents that they signed in 1991 are the same ones as today. An NGO has to renew annually. They reviewed the application form 10 times.

2. An article appeared in The Guardian in October of 2001. They withdrew from the UN as an NGO the next day. It has nothing to do with a change in languauge in the NGO documentation.

3. There was no need to be an NGO to gain access to the Dag Hammarskjold library at the UN. All that needs to be done is fill out an application, accompany it with a letter describing the reason for the research, and indicating that the material is exclusive to the UN, and cannot be obtained at a repository of UN information elsewhere (like at Columbia University library, etc). The Library reviews the application and issues a pass. You do not have to be an NGO to get into the library. That has always been the case since 1991. I confirned this with the Office of Ms. Maureen Andersen, Chief, User Services Section, Dag Hammarskjold Library.

4. It took me about 3-4 hours to find this out while I did other things. Therefore, anybody else can do it too! They didn't have to be an NGO to get access to the Library, and nobody told them that. It is a Bogus excuse.

Hang in there. Don't let them put the spin on you pertaining to this matter.

The Brothers in Malawi (starting in 1966) were persecuted for not buying and carrying a political card that cost 25 cents. Today that would be a conscience matter. See the 11-1-1999 Watchtower P. 28-29. Voting has become a matter of conscience. It wasn't in 1966.

cruzanheart

Hey, Sumflower, welcome to the board (if I haven't said that already)! I think what you did was very brave and you got to see firsthand how the elders can blithely ignore the facts and say whatever will keep the party line going. However, you never know -- one day that elder may actually start using his own brain and remember what he read. Good for you!

Nina

blondie

Good summary, Bluegrass Tom.

Brave girl, Sunflower. Elders are trained to respond with the company line. If they don't, they won't stay elders very long and they have worked hard to attain that "privilege." It eats away at some and they eventually leave and hardens others into liars and deceivers.

Blondie

Quotes

I second garybuss's sentiments.

Having said that, this Elder's response is preposterous, egregious, and relies on the listener being completely ignorant of the facts regarding the UN DPI and what service the UN expects from NGOs. It implies some sort of accidental back-door into NGO association. Imagine if the same elder suggested that some "interested person" came to the KH to use the KH library; and later he was counted as being a JW, even though that person never intended to be one. RIDICULOUS, right? Well achieving NGO status is much, MUCH more difficult that achieving JW status; furthermore being and NGO requires and ongoing commitment and obligation to prove annually to the UN, that the NGO has performed it's obligations. It doesn't happen by accident, anymore than becoming a JW happens by accident! Does he have proof of his non-sensical claim? Extraordinary claimes warrant extraordinary proof. Put up or shut up, Mr. Elder.

Another thing: even if it is true, the conclusions one reaches regarding the purity of WT is not good. It seems like it was pretty easy for the WT to be "tricked" into association with the Wild Beast. If this level of hypocrisy could happen so easily by accident/trickery, one has to question in what other areas the WT has been "tricked" or "accidentily" compromised their supposed principles..

The rules apply equally to all, at all times, don't they? If Mr. Elder saw a Governing Body member exiting a known "house if ill repute" would Mr. Elder just ignore it? If he would actually investigate it, would he accept a lame excuse from Mr. Gov Body like "well, when I went in there it was just a restaurant; it became an whore-house while I was in there, and as soon as someone (an apostate/opposer, actually) told me it is a whore house, I reaslized that it was time for me to leave." When you bring it down to everyday terms, the illogic of their defence is exposed for the straw man that it is.

gumby

cognitive dissonance n. Psychology

A condition of conflict or anxiety resulting from inconsistency between one's beliefs and one's actions, such as opposing the slaughter of animals and eating meat.

Gee....I wonder if these elders suffer from this?

Gumby

nobody told me

So, I guess we can get a library card for the Vatican. If we get caught we can say we never signed up for anything The Watchtower resigned from their relationship with the U.N. because they got caught. Everything eles they say is a lie!!!. This really gets me, since I was disfellowshipped for associating with a D'fed person. What in the world gives them the right to choose peoples friends, with they are the biggest hypocrites of all.

AlanF

Watchtower is just full of pathological liars.

The fact is that Governing Body member Lloyd Barry signed the final paperwork to join the Watchtower Corporation to the United Nations as an official Associated Non-Governmental Organization (NGO). Long-time Writing Department member Ciro Aulicino signed the paperwork as the official contact between Watchtower and the UN. Editor-in-chief of the Awake! magazine, Harry Peloyan, saw to it that Awake! carried the appropriate articles every year promoting UN goals. The Writing Department itself saw to it that The Watchtower magazine carried appropriate laudatory articles from time to time. Various top Watchtower officials, such as Phillip Brumley of the Legal Department, used the UN NGO status to gain political mileage in Europe and the U.S.A. with respect to religious rights for the Watchtower organization in both areas.

It's simply astounding how a group that bills itself as "the faithful and discreet slave distributing spiritual food in due season to God's household" can tell such blatant lies and engage in such massive hypocrisy. Well, they sure know their audience.

AlanF

gumby

Phillip Brumley of the Legal Department, used the UN NGO status to gain political mileage in Europe and the U.S.A. with respect to religious rights for the Watchtower organization in both areas.

Intresting. I figured this played in there somewhere.

I still wonder why they haven't used the scripture as to why they joined..............you know....how Jehovah would "milk the nations".

Gumby

shotgun

Sumflower

It was Jehovahs direction for them to join the UN and become an NGO because even though he is almighty the info needed by his visible erathly organization was in the UN library..they also have fresh donuts and coffee there.

The elder responded to you

So they signed it. Then in 2001 somebody new took over the department at the UN and "decided" that everyone on that "list" were "now NGO's" And that as soon as the brothers recieved notification they disassociated themselves.

Someone new took over at the UN...BullShite..the WT had to fill out a form each year and submit examples of how they were meeting the requirments of being an NGO as well.

Was it Jehovah's direction yet again, he must have had the Guardian newspaper do that expose on the WT/Un affiliation just to wake up the brothers to cut they're ties to the Scarlet Coloured Wild Beast because they did this within a week of the Newspaper article..praise the lord..Amen

Response from my elders about UN

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