All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped 287 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    Herk,

    "So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was." John 17:5

    "I came out from the Father and have come into the world. Further, I am leaving the world and am going my way to the Father." John 16:28

    "You are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. You are from this world; I am not from this world." John 8:23

    "What, therefore, if you should behold the Son of man ascending to where he wa before?" John 6:62

    "This one was in {the} beginning with God." John 1:2

    Etc.

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    P.S.

    "He was in the world, and the world came into existence through him." John 1:7

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    Herk said (large print emphasis mine):

    Hebrews 1:10 is addressed to Jesus, the Son of God. It's a quotation from Psalm 102. There God is addressed concerning his first creation . In a footnote on Psalm 102:26, The NIV Study Bible says: "With his first creation God clothed himself with the manifestation of his glory ... But he is more enduring than what he has made--and the first creation will give way to a new creation (see Isa 65:17; 66:22)" [The underlining is mine.]
    We have plenty of evidence that Hebrews 1:10 is speaking about the new creation and not the old .

    Herk admits that Hebrews 1:10 is addressed to Jesus, and that it is a quote from Psalm 102. Herk also seems to admit that Psalm 102 is about the first (ie: old creation). Yet then Herk says: "We have plenty of evidence that Hebrews 1:10 is speaking about the new creation and not the old."

    How can you admit that Hebrews 1:10 is a quote from a Psalm about the old creation (psalm 102) and then shortly later claim that Hebrews 1:10 is speaking about the new creation and not the old?

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Hoob:
    It aint like you to hit'n'run. You asked me a few questions, on page three, with no explanation of why.
    Mind elaborating on where you were going with them, or where you just asking for a position statement?

  • hooberus
    hooberus
    It aint like you to hit'n'run. You asked me a few questions, on page three, with no explanation of why.
    Mind elaborating on where you were going with them, or where you just asking for a position statement?

    I wanted to get your views on when you believe that you were born again. I have heard of some who claim to have been born again while still believing WT doctrine (for example the 8,000 JWs who claim to be anointed also claim to be "born again").

    I too equate being saved with being born again. I believe that we are born again by faith in Jesus Christ by the gospel (1 Peter 1:23-25).

    23: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
    24: For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
    25: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

    The probem is, is that I think that the WT preaches "another Jesus" (a created angel who is not the LORD) and "another gospel" (that his body was not raised but that he was recreated as a spirit).

    2 Corinthians 11

    3: But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
    4: For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

    Therefore I have difficulty accepting that a person holding such beliefs (ie: a created angel Jesus and a disposed of body) and also denying the biblical Jesus (the LORD, who body was raised), can have truly been born again.

    Romans 10

    9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
    12: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
    13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    You have mentionded the thief on the cross:

    The thief knew of Jesus' claim to be the Son of God (MT 27:41-44), and everyone believes that the thief had the real Jesus, not "another Jesus." It is also important to keep in mind that these events happened before the death and resurrection of Jesus. After these events the gospel preached incuded these things. The theif certainly did not have "another Jesus" (like the WT does), nor did he have "another gospel" as (the WT does).

    And the thief certainly was not preaching another gospel from door to door as (I'm afraid) JWs do !

    Galatians 1

    8: But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
    9: As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

    Many people from verious beliefs claim to have been "born again." New agers, JW anointed, etc. However we must scripturaly discern being born again.

    I believe that you are sincere in your beliefs, however I cannot agree with them. Anyway, If It were me, and if I had since came to a true faith after leaving the WT (I have never been a JW), I would make sure and call upon the resurrected Lord to save me.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Nice one - calling into question my conversion, huh?
    How condescending of you...

    Surely you'd expect that one "born of the Spirit", and taught by the same, would see their doctrines changing?
    What part of my list of how my doctrine changed (soley through prayer and reading the bible) didn't you get?

    I find that particular brand of arrogance an interesting parallel to that of the JW's.
    I don't see it very often, in my Christian travels, but when I do it revolts me just the same...

    My pre-conversion understanding was that Jesus was Lord and King, albeit secondary to the Father, and likely the highest rank of angel.
    Touching the resurrection, it was my understanding that he was resurrected in a body of flesh.
    I came to a point where Jesus was raised in my understanding to the point that he was more than I had perviously been taught. So, where do YOU think that took me?
    If you don't get it, then perhaps the absence of a JW upbringing is shielding you from the rather obvious conclusion...

    So, judge away. You've been the first to see fit to question my "adoption", however fortunately our Father hasn't!
    Meanwhile, thanks for the slap, brother. I'll be sure to offer the other cheek, if ever we meet.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe
    It is also important to keep in mind that these events happened before the death and resurrection of Jesus.

    That was my point. All you've done is repeat it.

    However we must scripturaly discern being born again.

    I think the living "Word" is probably a better judge, huh?
    However, since I have both, on that, as well as the church militant. I suspect I'm in pretty good hands, without someone attempting to knock my "assurance of faith", along with the adversary.

    I would make sure and call upon the resurrected Lord to save me.

    And you don't think I have?

    I have to confess, you've riled me - and that's an incredibly rare occurance!

  • hooberus
    hooberus
    Nice one - calling into question my conversion, huh?
    How condescending of you...

    I have certain beliefs about being born again, these beliefs differ from yours. Just as you have at various times stated your opinion on salvation, so I ( and I believe respectfully) stated mine. This is an important issue, and my comments were not intended to be a "slap."

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    You're welcome to them. I'm only glad that Jesus wasn't as harsh.
    Attitudes (like that) give the "Christian" community a bad rap, IMHO.

    Do you mind telling me what "brand" of Christianity calls into question the parentage of their brother?

  • gumby
    gumby

    This thread is like a ping pong match with neither side ever missing. The game just goes and goes and nobody ever wins. That's how come I don't play anymore.

    Gumby

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit