Who do you blame for the time you wasted as a DUB?

by Thunder Rider 66 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  flower

  The tobacco analogy makes no sense at all.

  If the tobacco comany was beating the shit out of babies and little kids and teaching them they will have their eyes plucked out by birds or get ripped apart by wild animals because not smoking a cigarette would anger JEHOVAH, and they beat them physically and mentally/emotionally for many years until they were but a shell of a real person, then YES you do blame the tobacco company when that child grows up to be a smoker. duh

  Sorry, Flower, your feelings on this are just not right. It is a choice. I had four children, but only two of them chose to be JW's. One of the others went along with it, but only for appearances. The other one, rebelled and said he would not be a JW when he was 17. (none are JW's now, thankfully)

  What he asked what who do you blame for the time wasted as a dub. I am not to blame that any of my time was wasted as a dub. I didnt choose to be a dub, had I been allowed to make my own choices I would have chosen not to be a dub, when I finally had the freedom to choose I took my leave.

  That 'theres always a choice' mentality, imo, gets filed right up there with the absurd argument thiests make to explain how humans 'choose' to go to hell.

  flower

  ps. surely you meant, sorry flower, your feelings on this are different than mine.
• 

  Special K

  I blame circumstance

  The circumstances surrounding the marriage between my mother and father lead her to grasp some man made organization for support and miraculous answers.

  I am a victim of circumstance

  special K
• 

  blondie

  I learned how hurtful it is to play the Blame Game when dealing with the abuse and alcoholic issues in my family. I am just so happy that my eyes are open and I was able to get free emotionally and spiritually. If done in ignorance, that is one thing. When done with knowledge and for selfish reasons, that is another. The important thing is to live in the present, the past is history.

  Blondie
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  Larry

  Great post - Thanks I needed that. I'm feeling that 'child no choice' argument.

  Ummm blame....After a contemplating this one, I would have to blame..... poverty. If my parents wasn't poor, my mother would not have been vulnerable to a 'pie in the sky' religion. If my parents wasn't so poor my father wouldn't have been in and out of jail trying to support his kids and a drug habit, which left my mother vulnerable to the pushy JW pioneer who stuck her foot in the door.

  But wait - my parents were victims of society. They were less than a generation away from slavery, and they grew up while 'Jim Crow' laws flourished in the north and south. Sure they had a choice, but not many Black folks at that time got anywhere with their choices. If my mother and her parents had a decent start in life, maybe she wouldn't have had the low self esteem need to fall prey to a cult.

  But wait - Slavery, lynching, torture, wanton crimes, etc. wouldn't have been possible without the sanction of the church (Bartholomew de las Casas, Pope Gregory the Great, etc.) So since the church blessed this arrangement by force and misapplied scripture maybe they are the reason I was a Jdub.

  But wait - This turns into a circular argument. Which leads me to ask a question - Was it such a bad thing that I was a Jdub?

  Not really, because the life me and my family now live is more than I could have imagined. I feel hurt that I was duped for over 30 years, but so far the end result was worth the time in ignorance.

  Just my thoughts. - 'No More Victim' Larry
• 

  Sentinel

  "myself"

  /<
• 

  itsallgoodnow

  About the time wasted- I don't like to think about that. The important thing is I'm ok now. I'm a stronger person now. I have learned to trust my instincts and the importance of power and knowledge.

  About the trouble in my family - I know that's not your question - but I do put blame here - on the organization and not on any of my family.
• 

  AGuest

  and to forgive (may you all have peace!): Adam.

  For it is he who "sold" all of mankind into slavery to the flesh... for the sake of his desire to be "like God" rather than be satisfied with who and what he was.

  As a result of his error, we, too, have the most difficult time being who and what we truly are... "sons of light"... and the Adversary knows this. Thus, that one "keeps transforming himself into an 'angel of light'... and begetting offspring ("of vipers")... false prophets and false christs whose very vocation it is to "mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones." Such ones do this by the "crafty machination" of... religion.

  If one NEEDS to blame someone, then, one should blame Adam. But... one might also want to condescend to put oneself in his place and not be so self-assured that one wouldn't have been tempted and done the same thing, too (as one would not want to be like the Pharisees... who cried out for the death of my Lord... and even approved of the killing of his disciples, all the while vehemently claiming that they were NOT like their forefathers... who, previously, put the prophets to death).

  To prevent such a thing, then, one should consider the whole "rafter/splinter" and the "all things you want men to do to you" thing(s). In doing that, one would be more like the Christ... who did not spend time finding fault and laying blame... but instead spent his time undoing the results.

  To whatever extent, then, within one's own personal abilities (whether it be feeding the hungry, taking in the homeless, looking after a widow or orphan, comforting the down-hearted, healing the sick, hey, even resurrecting the dead if one has the "gift"), one really should simply be about such "good works"... and leave the "vengence"... to God.

  Again, I bid you peace.

  A slave of Christ,

  SJ
• 

  talesin

  I see my parents as holding the responsibility.

  Since I left at age 18, I feel that MY choice was NO. Others have stated eloquently how their 'choice' as children was made - beatings, banishment, etc. We had no choice.

  BUT

  What I have recognized over the years, is that what I wanted from my parents was validation of my experience. I wanted them to admit that I had no choice, that THEY made the decisions for me, that I really HAD NO CHOICE when I got baptized at 14.

  So do I hold them responsible? YES.

  Do I think they are horrible people for doing what they thought was right? For believing in these snake-oil salesman? NO. I pity them.

  They are the ones who will die without seeing their dreams fulfilled, who see the years passing while they cling to their false hopes. I see the light in their eyes slowly dying, they have never had true freedom since they joined JW, and now they must KNOW, in their hearts, that the choices they made have had a negative impact on my life in ways they could never have imagined.

  How can I still be angry with them? They have been misled, their trust has been raped, their lives have been ruined by this, this faith! My anger is NOW reserved for the organization, for the masterminds who control all these sincere, trusting people.

  talesin
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  Thunder Rider

  I've read the term "blame game" used a few times in the posts. It is a common response to aleviate feelings of guilt and shift responsibility. Better I think to accept what happened, recognize that the poor decision was based on faulty information, and take what good we can from it.
  
  I do however reserve the right to protect myself from the influence of those still under the spell of the ORG. I get very angry when I see them preaching door to door and am often confronted by them in my daily affairs. The local dubs have learned to flee at the sight of me. THat is a good thing as I have vowed never to be fooled again and never to wste another moment of the time I have left.
  
  In my escape, I became my own hero and savior.
  
  XW,
  I appreciate the kind words. I hope that I am exactly as you believe.
  
  Dan,
  We have the same birthday! Sucks being so close to Christmas doesn't it.
  
  Larry,
  Circular arguments are difficult to avoid where emotions are involved. Accepting things as black and white must be done impassionately.
  
  Talesin,
  I hope one day to get past the hate and feel pity for them. For now though, dubbys be ware!
  
  SJ,
  You're scaring me there....feels like I'm sitting at the service meeting.....
  
  Itsallgoodnow,
  Strength from adversity is lasting but unnecessary.
  
  Sentinel,
  You are your own hero then.
  
  Thunder ==]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
• 

  badwillie

  Flower -

  I agree 100% with your assesment of the "choices" a child has. Really they have no choices in anything. I look at my own 3 year old son, he can't decide anything. Right now we are his whole world, he will believe and do anything we tell him. I was forced to go along with something that deep down clashed with my inner sensibilities. Now I'm free (albeit sans mother, father, and 2 sisters) - but at 36 I am so happy to finally stop pretending to be someone I'm not.

  Larry & Special K -

  So true what you say. The circumstances which led my mother to start that friggin' bible study with the JW's are to blame. She was saddled with 4 kids and a deadbeat husband, and came out of a very Catholic, guilt ridden childhood. She was easy prey for the very persistent, manipulative, over bearing, intrusive anointed Pioneer sister that recruited her. end of story. yes, of course she should have looked into it more, but she got sucked in fast. there was no internet in 1976 either. I am optimistic that the with the access to information that people now have these snake oil salesman type will be less and less effective. We're seeing that already with the number of peole that come on to sites like this while doing research because someone "witnessed" to them.