Who Is God?

Michael842

I have recently been studying some of the theology of the Baptists and comparing it to that of the Watchtower and I have learned some very interesting things. By the way, I am new to this forum and I am not sure if it usually discusses topics such as this, but I will be interested to read everyone's responses. My question is simply:

"Who is God?"

Isaiah 9:6. ?For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.?

This verse is obviously referring to Jesus Christ. If Jesus is not God, then how can Watchtower explain why he is called "The everlasting Father." This is a name only given to Jehovah himself according to Watchtower.

I have a lot of other Scripture that I have been reading that states that Jesus is God. Can someone please explain how Jesus can be "The everlasting Father" and not be God at the same time.

P.S. Please use scripture to support your answers.

Narkissos

Welcome Michael,

This verse is obviously referring to Jesus Christ.

That's your assumption, and the burden of proof is yours. To say that a text written several centuries before Jesus is actually referring to Jesus is quite an assertion when you think of it, and this would certainly require extraordinary evidence. I'm afraid you won't find help in the New Testament which, as far as I remember, doesn't quote this text.

Btw, calling Jesus "Everlasting Father" would hardly be helpful to trinitarian thinking which identifies Jesus to the Son, not the Father.

For a discussion of Isaiah 9 you may have a look at:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/44096/1.ashx

Nathan Natas

Q.: Who Is God?

A.: A sock puppet created to control others and absolve oneself of responsibility for one's actions.

OHappyDay

As noted by Narkissos, the New Testament does not quote Isaiah 9:6 at all in reference to Jesus.

Perhaps this was because the NT writers used the Greek Septuagint (LXX) extensively, and those words do not occur in the LXX at Isaiah 9:6.

However, the LXX calls the child here only "angel [or, messenger] of great counsel." So, if the NT writers had used Isaiah 9:6, it could only have been to say that Jesus was an angel.

Which, in fact, is what later theologians ("church fathers") of the 2nd century did: they called Jesus an angel and used Isaiah 9:6 (LXX) as their proof text.

DanTheMan

Happens at least once a month. A trinitarian Christian discovers this site, assumes that this is a site for active JW's, and starts the "Jesus is God" swinging without even taking 5 minutes to find out what the real flavor of this site is.

LittleToe

Narkissos:
Can you comment on the absence of this name in the LXX?

Michael842

Thanks so much for the responses. I hope posting this type of material is not a problem. In response to some of the statements made such as: "Btw, calling Jesus "Everlasting Father" would hardly be helpful to trinitarian thinking which identifies Jesus to the Son, not the Father. "

Is not correct. In the New Testament, Jesus, who cannot lie, says "I and my Father are one." So to call Jesus the everlasting Father shows that Jesus is Jehovah. I looked over the reference link that you gave and found it to be unclear. If the verse is not referring to Jesus, then who is it referring to? It is referring to God for sure though, because no other being is "the everlasting Father." Also, if it is not Jesus, it is referring to and it is the Father, then what does "Unto us a child is borne, unto us a son is given refer to about the Father?

Isaiah 7:14 ?Therefore the Lord [Jehovah] himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel? (literally, ?God? or ?Jehovah with us,? since Jehovah is the only God) .

Micah 5:2. ?But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.?

Micah 5:2 is referring also to Jesus as in accord with Isaiah 9:6. In this verse it states His "goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

If it is referring to Jehovah, then when did Jehovah come forth unto himself to be ruler in Israel?

LittleToe

Michael:
You might want to read a few of the recent threads on the Trinity and such texts. There has been an avalanche of them, of late (in the last 2-3 months), to the point that it's got quite tiring (and that's from someone who loves the subject).

Click on "Search" at the top of the page, and type in "Trinity".

Michael842

P.S. I am not sure what this website is all about. I just wanted to see what everyone believed and get an answer to my question. But I would be glad if someone would tell me what this site is all about. Thanks again guys :O)

Kenneson

"For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us..." Where in Scripture does it say angels are born? To which angel has the Father ever said: "You are my son..."? Heb. 1:5

The son of Isaiah 9:6 is not an angel, but in the New Testament is applied to Jesus, who was born a human. "Look! The virgin will become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and they will call his name Immanuel," which means, when translated, "With Us Is God.." Verse 25 identifies the son as Jesus.

Who Is God?

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