by Michael842 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Um, perhaps doing a perusal of the topics listed might give you a clue as to what this site is "all about." Most of us are ex-JWs. Some of us still cling to the primitive, blood-thirsty, foreskin lovin, theological Holocaust God of the Bible. Some of us are way past that.
B.
Jehovah loves a crispy foreskin snack every so often.
"Mmmmmm... foreskins" - Jehovah
Narkissos,
Btw, calling Jesus "Everlasting Father" would hardly be helpful to trinitarian thinking which identifies Jesus to the Son, not the Father.
Excellent point!
Michael....welcome.
If you want a 6 page long discussion of two ex-witnesses arguing the validity of the trinity.....then go to the 'member directory' and look up 2 dudes named "Hooberus", and "Herk". I'm sure your question was covered by them......each with tons of scriptures. If you do....you'll be just like they are.........two guys who debate for hours and both go home with the same identical beliefs they had when they woke up that morning. Each one trying to convert the other one, because the other one is wrong, and really needs to see it the others ones way, so the other one will be right. Do you follow?
Gumby
Gumby,
That the title "father" is not reserved to God can be seen elsewhere in Scripture. For example, Abraham is the "father" of the Jewish nation.(Rom. 4: 16-17) See also John 8:53, 56 However, the Messiah is to be more than Abraham as he is described with the adjective "everlasting." The symbolic use of the word father was an ancient Hebraism for "possessor of." The Messiah, than, is to be the father (possessor of) eternity. In John 8 the Pharisees claimed both Abraham as father and the God of Abraham as Father. But Jesus made it plain that their link to Abraham was only physical. Spiritually they were of their father the devil. Then Jesus made the most amazing claim of all. He said, "Before Abraham was, I Am." NWT says "I have been." Now, how could Jesus have been before Abraham unless he pre-existed? The eternality of Christ is proclaimed in several instances in Scripture. For instance, John the Baptist, whose birth preceded Jesus said in John 1:30: "This is the one about whom I said, Behind me there comes a man who has advanced in front of me, because he existed before me." Rev. 1:17 calls Jesus "the First and the Last." Not that he is the first thing but that he is before everything and begins everything (is the origin of all things) and not that will be the last thing, but that he will surpass everything into eternity. If Rev.1:8, 21:6 and 22:13 applies to the Father, than the same thing is said of him: he is the first and the last. And no one would suggest that the Father had a beginning or will have an ending.
I dont know who God is, but I sure that this guy probably was going to wish he nkew who God was in the next few seconds!
Kenneson,
You would think that a man supposedly spoken of in the O.T. with such qualities as god himself and father of the world........wouldn't have waited 4000 years to identify himself in the N.T. This everlasting father was unknown to the billions who lived prior to the first century. Jesus himself never refered to himself as the father and openly discussed it. What do you suppose Jesus would have tols a diciple if the diciple asked if Jesus would like to be called or refered to as the "Everlasting Father". He would say "he was only the fathers son, who was sent by the father." Jesus also would have alluded to it when varifying his identity to opposers...(but then, you can't trust interpolated scripture by the corrupt church either) in areas that show obvious sings of 'Jesus word editing')
Gumby
What we need now is a "VAST WASTELAND" where those who want to do "Arian/Trinit-Arian" duels can slug it out. Last time I looked, the latest tRINITARIAN WASTELAND thread was approaching 300 posts (and maybe a 100 anti-tRINITY CARTOONS; where does he get all of those??!!!).
Reference: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/69282/1.ashx
Maybe Simon can provide a roped off area in the forum for that.
BTW, I got out my Septuagint (1999 reprint of Bagster & Sons 1851 edition) and used it on those scriptures. Quite thought provoking: indeed, Captain!!!
Actually, only a few here are tRINITY hobbyists. Many of us have discovered that our lives and religion don't need that. It is doubtful if God cares which way we go with this.
But men will condemn you to hELL in a heartbeat if you don't "bow the knee" to the tRINITY. It would seem to me that those people worship the tRINITY as a God.
And we are not certain if the Devil hasn't introduced this doctrine as an artifice to destroy faith by causing unwarranted confusion.
We also have the zealots that show up to convert everybody. In that regard, my ancestors were killed or driven out of Europe by the rabid, papist tRINITARIAN enforcers of the Inquisition. Considering the killing done in the name of the hOLY tRINITY, it is doubtful if a person who maintains a requirement for this above reason is a balanced and evolved individual.
Considering the previous thoughts which are outside the usual narrow focus of tRINITARIAN discussions, it is best to step back and look at the larger picture. There are much more important issues than the time-consuming and never ending arguments over the tRINITY.
Welcome to the board, Michael.
Mustang
in his younger days:
LOL....do you have a picture of God's Grace?
mac
Here is a quote from God:
