scholar and 1914

by Marvin Shilmer 63 Replies latest jw friends

  • scholar
    scholar

    Mary

    Your comment that the 1914 doctrine is built on sand and that the Society knows it is false is frankly a stupid comment to make. The recent Watchower article on the Gentile Times upholds the validity of this traditional understanding of scripture whether you choose to accept this or not.

    As a matter of interest I am a active publisher and have completed postgraduate studies in religion and I am currently working towards a doctorate in this field. Now this may surprise you that a Witness would dare do such a thing but life is full of surprises

    'scholar

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    What was the title of your thesis or what area in religion did you do your principal study in?

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost
    some of the clergy of Christendom in England agreed that the Gentile Times had expired avvording to their published Manifesto

    Scholar,

    Can you or anyone tell me more about this Manifesto? I'm all ears!

    I am a active publisher and have completed postgraduate studies in religion and I am currently working towards a doctorate in this field. Now this may surprise you that a Witness would dare do such a thing but life is full of surprises

    It might, but then we've never had any corroboration, have we? So many times I've invited you to tell us about your congregation so that we can inform the elders there of such a learned one in their midst. But you never respond. Never.

    Ozzie

  • Mary
    Mary
    What was the title of your thesis or what area in religion did you do your principal study in?

    He studied at Hogswart School of Watchtower, Witchcraft and Wizardry. Professor Dumbledork is his advisor.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Ozziepost, I asked the same question, still waiting for an answer. I rarely get a response from JW apologists, but I am sure this is not news to you.

    Scholar, that manifesto of which you speak, would that be the one touted by the Advent Testimony Movement, after the Balfour Declaration in 1917? http://www.lamblion.com/other/social/SI-01.php

    I doubt this debate is heading on a scholarly route.

  • scholar
    scholar

    Leolaia

    My undergraduate and postgraduate studies in religion and philosophy both Western and Eastern amounted to a total of 40 units of study. My religious studies focussed on Christianity, Hinduism and Buddhism. The thesis topic deals with an ontology of religious experience revealed in Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism.

    scholar

  • City Fan
    City Fan

    Scholar,

    To be honest, the unscholarly way you try to argue your points suggests that you're making all these degrees up. You seem to find it difficult to form any coherent arguments.

    I think until you either tell us who you really are, or at least get one of your professors to come on here and confirm your qualifications, we'll have to just asssume that your degrees are imaginary.

    What would amaze me if you had actually studied religion and philosophy for so long is how you would still be ensnared by a man-made religion that gives its members absolutely no freedom of religious or philosophical thought whatsoever. All those years of learning seem to have been wasted. Instead of opening your mind to new thoughts and ideas you still have the closed mindset of a JW.

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost
    you're making all these degrees up

    Actually I would think that he has had some studies but in light of scholar's declared credentials I would say "So what? There's nothing special about that!" There are plenty of people who've done some studies, so what? What does that prove? Nothing special, that's for sure!

    Oh, for the record, both Mrs Ozzie and I might also claim recognition for our own university/theological studies and so might some other Australian posters of the past. As we say down here (in respect of Scholar) "It's all hooey"

    Cheers, Ozzie

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    My undergraduate and postgraduate studies in religion and philosophy both Western and Eastern amounted to a total of 40 units of study. My religious studies focussed on Christianity, Hinduism and Buddhism. The thesis topic deals with an ontology of religious experience revealed in Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism.

    I see, your interest is in comparative religion, very interesting. There's been a huge amount of work done in this particular field, and from perusing the various journals in the study of religion, I can see that the literature is quite vast. What philosophical framework do you ground your study in? Do you contrast the differing way various approaches explain religious experience in a set of major religious traditions (assessing the relative merit of these approaches, such as that of Hegel), or do you go with one particular approach to probe more deeply into the relationship between belief and feeling in different religious traditions? I would like to hear some of your conclusions, or perhaps some of your more specific research questions (because what you described is quite vast). Does your research assume that religious feeling and the "rational" dictates of religious law, doctrine, dogma are at some level independent (or that one is primary over the other), or are interconnected at all levels? What you do think of postmodern approaches that radically depart from an assumption of primacy in religious feeling in the individual (which according to Hegel is then dialectically incorporated into an individual's learned systems of belief) and view all subjectivity as semiotically constituted? And if you are studying religious experience as situated within Christianity, Buddhism, etc., which traditions do you take as being representative of Christianity, Buddhism, etc.

    I have not studied this area in religious studies (tho I have studied various philosophical approaches), and so please correct any mistaken assumptions you may find in my questions. The most curious question I have, however, relates to the JWs. I have been to Pentacostal and American black Baptist church services where the "worship" mostly consists of practices that critically involve emotional experience (in my black church experience, more than half the service involved singing), while the focus of JW meetings was almost entirely on knowledge, on learning certain rules and how to behave appropriately, how to improve one's preaching, and various doctrines and beliefs, with very, very little appeal to religious feeling. The former discussed explictly how we were all "feeling God's Spirit," while in the latter, the Spirit was presumably something that the Annointed mysteriously and privately experience. And the Annointed are defined not in terms of feeling but of knowledge (e.g. they just "know" they have a heavenly hope). In the non-JW services I went to, there were many overt markers of feeling: singing with full-bodied voices, dancing, clapping while singing, raising of the hands, crying, touching each other, etc. All of these would be highly marked at the JW services I went to, and if I sang with all my heart while dancing, clapping, and holding my hands out to God while singing a Kingdom Melody while everyone else sang in the usual muted way, I know I would really, really stand out. Maybe it's different in black-dominant JW congregations, where there might be more influence from traditional black church experience. In fact, I might even wonder if there is real uniformity in this around the world, considering the natural tendency for native practices to enter adopted religious traditions. But within most JW assemblies and congregations I have gone to in the United States, I see a real qualitative difference which is also reflective of (or the result of) the ideology espoused by the WTS, which defines worship as through evangelism and observing rules governing conduct and not through a personal experience of receiving God's Spirit and through the conduct that results from such an experience, etc. As a JW, how would you characterize or approach the ontology of religious experience within the JW tradition?

  • scholar
    scholar

    Leolaia

    Thank you for your most interesting post which contain many questions and issues. The subject of religious experience or mysticism is one that interests me greatly particularly as a Witness. Some have felt that there is no mystical element in our theology and worship, a view that I totally reject. However, this is an area that warrants careful attention because I am trying to demonstrate that there is a common core for religious experience which has beemn investigated by Rudolf Otto but the philosophical base for such a belief fas been challenged by Steven Katz and others.

    For my thesis on comparative religion I have selected Pseudo Dionysius, Meister Eckhart through to Heidegger for Christianity with attention paid to Plotinus. For Hinduism, I will be looking at Sankara and the Vedantic tradition and with Buddhism, the Madhyamika school and its adcocates. As you say this is a rather broad area so I haven chosen the best representatives of those traditions and hope to distill the common elements which may be traced to Otto;s concept of the numinous.

    scholar

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