Even if a God did exist, there are no absolutes

by logansrun 62 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  logansrun

  Dog,

  I think its called stupid! If there are no absolutes, how do you know if you're in touch with reality?

  In an "absolute" way, you can't. Immanuel Kant made this clear in his distinction between the noumenon (the world as it is in it's totality) and the phaneron (the world as we subjectively experience it). We will never -- ever! -- see reality from an "absolute" standpoint. We will always have the inadequacies and biases of our subjective experience.

  Now, that doesn't mean that our subjective experience isn't valid. If you were to view a ten ton cube of solid steel you would say that it was heavy. That's true, from your point of view. To a mile tall alien on the planet Mebeert it might be quite light.

  Another example: Solid things appear solid, right? Common sense. But, in actual fact, there is far more empty space in any solid object than there is matter. Does that mean our perspective is wrong? No. It does mean that there is more than one. Hence, perspectivalism.

  B.
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  Deputy Dog

  Gumby

  You just proved my point. That makes absolutely no sense at all!
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  logansrun

  LMAO!
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  Deputy Dog

  I think God has the absolute perfect perspective. So I hope you don't mind if I take His word over yours.

  D Dog
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  rem

  Which god?
  
  rem
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  rem

  I don't know of any universal absolutes... there are social norms that we as humans have devised to live in functioning societies, but even the most fundamental of these norms are by no means "absolute" in a universal sense.
  
  We can agree that rape is wrong... for humans. But what if there is some alien civilization out there that only procreates through rape? Our values may not be the values of other sentient beings.
  
  Stealing is wrong... for us... but what about a hypothetical civilization in which there is no concept of personal belongings.
  
  Our "absolutes" are only absolute in the sense that they are pragmatic for modern human societies. They keep our civilizations functioning. Human civilizations that don't apply those norms probably tend to die out, so you don't see them. Some of our absolutes may be historical accidents as well... sort of like the QWERTY design of modern keyboards. For example, somewhere along the way, humans or our ancestors began to value posessions, hence starting us down the path of viewing "theft" as wrong.
  
  I could be wrong. :)
  
  rem
• 

  LyinEyes

  Hubby and I talked about this very thing this morning. One thing always leads to another subject and I find that I have lost more brain cells trying to figure things out.

  You can believe God is real, or think it is possible he is real, but I don't know anyone who can prove it to me. They can prove it to themselves, they can tell me why they are believers but it their truth , not mine.

  After leaving the borg, I can't just take the word of anyone as I did before. That includes the Bible.

  Men wrote that it was inspired. Maybe it was , maybe it wasnt. Man wrote that God made us in his image in the bible, but maybe that is just what the writers wanted to believe and therefore they perceived that strong feeling of wanting it to be so, as fact.
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  Agent 1 of 1

  You go, girl. LOL. That's pretty much it. Nobody can prove that God exists. They believe it or feel it or have convinced themselves enough to think it. But, you have to start questioning why God is invisible? If he really wants us to know truth and follow him, then let him prove it instead of by riddles. Its a coincidence that Satan, the angels are also invisible. And that miracles don't occur anymore. For once, I would like to see something physically proven.

  Other than that, I would have to agree with everyone else here. Nothing is absolute. And it just plain sucks. :P Oh well. Wait, maybe the only thing that is absolute is that nothing is absolute. Hmmm...
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  funkyderek

  In an "absolute" way, you can't. Immanuel Kant made this clear in his distinction between the noumenon (the world as it is in it's totality) and the phaneron (the world as we subjectively experience it). We will never -- ever! -- see reality from an "absolute" standpoint. We will always have the inadequacies and biases of our subjective experience.

  We don't see reality objectively but (assuming there is an objective reality) we can measure it objectively.

  Now, that doesn't mean that our subjective experience isn't valid. If you were to view a ten ton cube of solid steel you would say that it was heavy. That's true, from your point of view. To a mile tall alien on the planet Mebeert it might be quite light.

  But it will still weigh ten tons and be made of solid steel. To the alien it might weigh "mwwp dauwoc" and be made of "pththththt-ker'pling" but those terms will correspond exactly in meaning to the words we use.

  Another example: Solid things appear solid, right? Common sense. But, in actual fact, there is far more empty space in any solid object than there is matter. Does that mean our perspective is wrong? No. It does mean that there is more than one. Hence, perspectivalism.

  Solid objects are solid in the normal sense of the word. A micron-high alien from the planet Flink-perty-perty-pong'tch would see a lot more holes in the world than we do but may still know that while on a microscopic scale everything is mostly empty space, on a larger scale what we call "solid" objects would appear solid.

  Our perceptions of reality may be wrong but that doesn't mean there is no reality, merely that we are not always equipped to see it accurately. We are however equipped to understand this and compensate for it.
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  Descender

  Oh yeah, well my dog told me the other night that in actuality, none of us really exist the way that we think that we do. We are all part of a massive multiplayer on-line video game kind of like Sims. Some other being installed us off of some sort of medium, like a dvd, onto their hard drive so that during their free time they can control our virtual lives with a few clicks of a mouse button for their own entertainment.

  You may ask, why should I believe my dog? Well, first of all he's very intelligent, I mean he can speak english at only 2 years of age and he's a chinese pug, so it's not even his native language.

  Right after talking to my dog I decided to go work out, but when I walked out of my house I suddenly had no clothes on and there were 5 twenty-one year old female JW's standing at my door, suddenly they didn't have any clothes on. they pushed me back into my house and I looked to the right and there was a hot tub sitting there. I suddenly had the sinking feeling that $5000 had just been depleted from my bank account. But that didn't matter, there were 5 naked women in a hot tub with me. All of a sudden an elder walked in my back door. After that I don't know what happened, something about plastic wrap on the floor and the elder wearing black leather. Anyway, whoever was playing me must have had their fun for the night and gotten bored, because the next thing I remember is I'm sitting here typing this and I don't even want to, but my fingers keep on moving. sometimes it sucks being a bunch of pixels on a hard drive.