Even if a God did exist, there are no absolutes

by logansrun 62 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    LOL

    Ya know, I can't help but find it amusing to see that the comments by "rationalists", on this thread, resort to analogies about alien races (complete with examples of potential languages). Apparently that (and probably inter-dimensional beings) is much more acceptable to accept than "God".

    Setting aside a theist viewpoint, it seems a given that there are certain absolutes, not least in the sphere of physics.

    The sun rises and sets. The stars move in prescribed motions. The Periodic Table of Elements holds true regardless of what part of the globe (and probably the universe - though that's an assumption, right?) you live in.

    Even taking it to a psychological level, it appears that humans seem to hold certain things in common [sense], such as rights and wrongs regarding property rights.

    To disregard such things surely places ourselves in the role of "God", as the center of our own imagined universe, where everything revolves around that which we are conscious consciously?

    Ergo sum (or if you prefer an alternative - Cognito ergo sum), but what about those that we interact with. Are we merely deluding ourselves? If so, I am really the only one who exists here, and am currently condiucting a conversation with my own sick mind, that has generated all these personality constructs, such as exemplified by all the "Users" of JWD and the Intenet at large, far less the "real" world that I spend far more of my time interacting with.

    Back to a theist viewpoint. It appears that that is one of the main arguments levelled at theists is their belief of their "imaginary friend", even though these individuals behave in an otherwise totally rational manner.
    That sounds kinda selective, to me.

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    Little Toe:

    "Cogito, ergo sum." "I think, therefore I am."--Rene Descartes

    "Amo, ergo sum" "I love, therefore I am." --Unknown

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    Little Toe,

    Ya know, I can't help but find it amusing to see that the comments by "rationalists", on this thread, resort to analogies about alien races (complete with examples of potential languages). Apparently that (and probably inter-dimensional beings) is much more acceptable to accept than "God".

    Yes, it's more acceptable because I don't confuse an analogy with the real thing. There's a big difference between providing a theoretical situation which you are using simply to help illuminate a point, and fervantly believeing in something for which there is no evidence (indeed, for which we have strong arguments against).

    Setting aside a theist viewpoint, it seems a given that there are certain absolutes, not least in the sphere of physics.

    Yes, and I completely agree with you (note you said "seems"). This thread took a turn I didn't intend for it to take. My original post was with regard morality and values, not whether reality exists (lol). Even though the realm of science is often not absolute, it does provide a very useful view of reality. Value judgments and opinions, on the other hand, are grounded are completely human constructs without any absolute standard.

    Back to a theist viewpoint. It appears that that is one of the main arguments levelled at theists is their belief of their "imaginary friend", even though these individuals behave in an otherwise totally rational manner.
    That sounds kinda selective, to me.

    Yes, many intelligent theists are selective in their thought processes, to the point of being contradictory and ridiculously myopic. For a great discussion of "Why Do Smart People Believe Weird Things" please see Michael Shermer's book, "Why Do People Believe Weird Things."

    www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0805070893/qid=1082686418/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/103-8153335-1881467?v=glance&s=books

    Adios.

    Bradley

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Kenneston:

    Ergo Sum - I AM / I exist (with no qualifying conditions) - LittleToe

    Bradley:
    Wanna have another shot, and explain where you did want this to go?

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek
    Ergo Sum - I AM / I exist (with no qualifying conditions) - LittleToe

    That would be just "sum" (although not sure if that's grammatically correct in Latin); ergo means therefore

    Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum

    (I think I think, therefore I think I am) .

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    LOL
    Even when you're taking the p*ss out of me you make me smile, Derek. Thanks

    How about "Sum ergo sum" ?

  • Sirius Dogma
    Sirius Dogma
    There is no objective standard for right and wrong even if a God did exist.

    Objective standard. There is none, I would agree with that.

    God's morality is nothing more than an opinion backed up by absolute power.

    I would agree with that as well, although some who believe in imaginery friends might argue that "the creator knows what is best for his creations." Much like how an auto maker tells you run this type of gasoline in this model and this type of oil.

    Might does not make right. Nothing makes "right."

    Above you state there is no objective standard for right and wrong, so how can Might, or anything for that matter, make right or wrong. So if might doesn't make right, it doesn't make wrong either, it just is. Nothing makes wrong either.

    Our ethics are a branch of our aesthetics -- personal preferences nothing more.

    Yep. They differ all over the planet, although we have a lot in common there are a lot of differences, although I think soon enough as we continue down the road of globalazation, we will get closer and closer to agreeing.

    So if there is no objective right and wrong, then everything is 'just ok' or 'just is', therefore rule by might is just ok and a non-objective standard just is. Seeing past polarazation is a real mind-twist.

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek
    How about "Sum ergo sum"

    Kinda like Popeye? "I yam what I yam"

  • dan
    dan

    Y'know, Pyrrho would probably be disgusted with how far skepticism has come. It's a pretty useless branch of philosophy, and it just leads to uselessness in society. God exists. His will is what runs our universe. It's not arbitrary. You probably just don't want any responsibility. Most of this whining sounds like someone is p*ssed at the world because he can't get the 12:00 to stop blinking on his VCR. If you have such a huge problem with authority, start with your parents; and when you fix them then you can move on to your elementary school teachers, but don't start with God. You're not gonna win.

    I got some other phrases for ya:

    I feel, therefore I exist. - Thomas Jefferson

    I rebel, therefore I am. - Albert Camus

    I ought, therefore I can. - Immanuel Kant

    I want, therefore I am. - Leo Tolstoy

    Sometimes I think: and sometimes I am. - Paul Valery

    I labor, therefore I am a man. - Max Stirner

  • natalienu
    natalienu

    Huamns will always be wondering this until the day they die and I guess no one will ever know what happens then as no one has come back to tell us.

    Lets just make sure we live good, exciting lives and just be content with that peoples!

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