by patio34 58 Replies latest social current
blacksheep,
There is a big difference between unity and uniformity.
I have no problem supporting my country, and some measure of pride is natural. But "patriotism" too often means unreflexive rhetoric, national selfishness and anti-intellectualism. I stand, first and foremost, as an individual and member of humanity, not simply as an American.
I guess Jefferson, Franklin and the Founding Fathers were considered unpatriotic Brits after 1776.
Bradley
black,
question: whats your opinion on saddam fighting the kurds and other minorities in order to keep iraq one country? was that patriotic, heroic, an act of crime or insane? remind you the US civil war cost about 600.000 lives.
I have no problem supporting my country, and some measure of pride is natural. But "patriotism" too often means unreflexive rhetoric, national selfishness and anti-intellectualism. I stand, first and foremost, as an individual and member of humanity, not simply as an American.
Well, fortunatley, if you are an American, you live in a country which allows supports tolerance. You know, you're posts on this issue are full of pseudo-elist rhetoric AND stereotyping: people supporting their country are reflecting national selfishness and "anti-intellectualism." Sorry to disappoint, but plenty of highly intellectual people support the US's engagement in the war. What I see is there are MANY of those on the other side, who are opposing the war and the US in general for elitist, selfish reason. I mean, I know those in Hollywood are some of the most selfless, EDUCATED people on the planet. Guess it's just co-incidental that so many of these massive movie stars are OPPOSED to the war, to support of the country.
If you want to lump people in your so-called elitist stereotypes, take a look at youself.
question: whats your opinion on saddam fighting the kurds and other minorities in order to keep iraq one country? was that patriotic, heroic, an act of crime or insane? remind you the US civil war cost about 600.000 lives.
Iraq was not able to foster a pluralistic society, as is typical of countries of the mideast. They cannot seem to tolerate dissention, but must kill to conquer and subjugate. As an American, I find that very sad, and am glad to be living in a free country.
Now if in the US, we had our president fighting the Muslims, Jews, Buddists, and JWs to insist that they subscribe to one Christianity and follow his dictates blindly, then I would see a comparison.
Try as you might, that comparison is not viable, however. Lincoln was a great leader and saw a fundamenally political and philosophical division in the nation at that time. Fortunately, the US has not had a civil war in 150 years.
blacksheep,
I never said there were no intelligent people who are patriotic. Nor would I include many movie stars among intellectuals.
Bradley
I would think that it means that we are united in our freedoms and our foundation (the constitution). To say that the slogan is hurtful or derogatory is just plain stupid. It is rather silly to suggest that you are inhibited in some way of speaking your peice, whilst speaking your peice.
Unfortunately, for many, little witch, it does not mean that. It means "We are united in all the decisions made by Washington."
Bradley
Benjamin Franklin once said "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
United We Stand is simply an extension of that thought ... that there is safety in numbers and in being united for a common cause. If you don't wish to be a part of that common cause, then don't. That's one of the other great things about living in this country: the freedom to choose.
I think the phrase has been stretched a bit into something more than what Franklin & co. would have wanted. The "If you're not for us, you're against us" attitude, for instance.
It's a tough balance, individualism and collectivism. There are no easy answers.
Bradley
Some folks may need adding to the roles of the pseudo-intellectual...
LT "proud to be Scottish" class
