United We Stand?

by patio34 58 Replies latest social current

  • blacksheep
    blacksheep

    Yeah, I'm not clear how people want to someone demonize the term. Any great leader tries to unite, not divide. Any sensible manager will promote teamwork, as oppose encouraging people to dissent. No doubt there's a balance.

    I happen to think the US, we've done a great job with this balance. (And ftr, I've lived in a few European countries. Never met a country there who OVERTLY didn't think they were better than anyone else. Had British managers saying they are tired of the French riding on their coat tails. They assumed Germans weren't open to any alteranative ideas. They all had the "if we didn't invent it here we're not going to try it."

    Oh my god, coming from the politically correct US, I was astonished at European's (of their own nation) overtly, "we're better than everyone else attitude."

    So spare me the "united we stand" equals some sort of anti-toleration, anti-dissention statement in the US.

  • crinklestein
    crinklestein

    I hate politics. I always have. I could give a shit what this country is doing in other countries. It has nothing to do with me or anything that I am interested in so I am not going to sit in front of the TV watching the news every fucking day fretting over the bullshit in Iraq.

    I hate patriotism. Patriotism has, more and more, become more of a showy display. "Look at me everybody! I'm REALLY patriotic! I got the biggest flag in the neighborhood!" People that are overly patriotic are alot like people that are overly religious. Like the ones that have to goto the Passion movie and make a point to wear all of their Retail Religious Garb: the biggest crosses they can find, their WWJD shirts and wrist bands. "Look at me! I'm a CHRISTIAN EVERYBODY!"

    To me it's the same thing. People can't believe in anything without making some big showy display about it. And if you don't have a flag in your yard, on your vehicle and on your shirt then you aren't patriotic. It means you're not American. If you don't have a yellow ribbon on your front door or mailbox then you don't support our troups. I can't stand this mentality!

    I had a discussion with someone over the whole Supporting Our Troups thing and the guy just could not define what it meant to actually support our troups. He asked me if I supported our troups. I said, "How do you mean support?"
    "Huh?"
    "You asked me if I support our troups. I'm asking you to define "support". Support them how? Financially? Emotionally? Spiritually? Morally? Exactly how do you mean support?"
    "Well...I see that you don't have one of these bumper stickers on your car or a yellow ribbon on your house so that must mean that you don't, considering your attitude."
    "Sir, I'm not giving you an attitude. I'm just asking for clarification. But what you just said clarified exactly what you meant. What you are saying is that regardless of how I feel about the whole situation over in Iraq...regardless of how it is affecting me...regardless of how I feel emotionally or spiritually about it or whether I think it's moral or not...regardless of all of these things you think that one doesn't support the troups just because they don't have a bumper sticker or a yellow ribbon? Am I understanding you correctly?"
    "I'm not gonna argue or debate over this. I'm just asking you a question."
    "And I'm not wanting to argue either. I'm just trying to engage you in an intelligent discussion about the subject. I just find it funny though, that the popular opinion of supporting something is to make a public display of some kind. Why do you think that is?
    "I don't know."
    "Do you think that in order to support something one needs to make a grand public spectacle of one's self? In effect, shouting out to the world "HEY LOOK AT ME! I SUPPORT OUR TROUPS!" Or "I SUPPORT AIDS VICTIMS!"
    "..."
    "Do you think it's possible to support a cause without drawing attention away from the cause and towards yourself? Do you think it's possible to support a cause without caving in to people or companies trying to cash in on national tragedies by making T-shirts, ribbons and bumper stickers? Don't you think a better way to support our troups is to support their families that are left home alone? Giving emotional, spiritual and, if needed, financial support to those who's husbands, wives, mothers and fathers are going to be gone for quite some time?"
    "I guess."
    "So, which way of supporting our troups would actually be better? Buying a bumper sticker? Or taking the son of one our troups out to a ball game? Inviting that troup's family over for dinner and fellowship? Lending an open ear and a shoulder to cry on when they need it? Being their friend and understanding what they are going through? Which way sounds better to you?"
    "Well, when you put it that way I guess your way sounds better."
    "So let me ask you...are YOU supporting our troups? You don't have to answer that because that is a personal matter, as it is with me. Whether I do all of these things or not is private. I'm not one to boast over my contributions because boasting over how much you've given actually takes more away from what you gave. Don't you agree?"
    "Well if you don't make it known then how are people going to know that you contributed?"
    "Why does ANYONE need to know? If you goto church do you make a big display of exactly how much you are donating? If you do then your donation means nothing. Because it would mean that you gave, not to support the church but to improve what people think of you. That means you are giving for completely selfish reasons. TO MAKE YOURSELF LOOK BETTER."

    Anyway it went on a little bit longer but this was the gist of the conversation. All of that to tell the guy that it was none of his business. LOL! But it got him thinking about his motives and that's a good thing. Most people are just sheep being led by the media. I think Michael Moore's "Bowling For Columbine" is an excellent documentary to watch. It makes you evaluate your intentions, your actions and your perceptions of why you think the way you do about certain things. He basically points out that the media is to blame for alot of the violence plaguing this country because the media has been successful in one and only thing...creating FEAR. The media keeps people in fear and fear is a method of control. That's the method the Nazi's used. If they keep you in fear then they can control your feelings. If they control your feelings they can make you feel one way or another about something. If you control that then you fully control that person.

    That's why I don't pay any attention to what is going on in the world. Whether I know about it or not doesn't change the fact that it will happen with or without me. That's why I don't really watch the news, read the papers, engage in political debates with others etc. I act like I could give two shits about everything that goes on in this world. Worrying to death about it is only going to do one thing? Negatively affect your health both mentally and physically. I choose to be in complete control of myself and not to live in fear and anticipation over current affairs.

    Some people call that appathy. So be it. I call it being in total control of myself and being realistic about what I think or feel about certain subjects. Is that so bad?

  • Pork Chop
    Pork Chop

    Put the leftists in charge and see how much "dissent" they allow. They beat the dissent drum real hard until they're in control, then they stand you up against a wall and shoot you if you disagree with them

  • blacksheep
    blacksheep

    Crinkelstein,

    For someone who alleges he does't pay attention to "what's going on in the world," you sure wrote a NOVEL'S worth. And, don't assume you're tiresome convesation with this guy represents the rest of our interactions.

    Sheesh! Be happy with whatever you've chosen. Most people don't give a flying flip about whether you fly a flag and how big it is.

  • crinklestein
    crinklestein

    This wasn't a personal attack against you so don't get all defensive. I was just writing my opinion about this current topic.

  • Simon
    Simon

    Those that come out with things like "United we stand" and "we must be united" usually mean "you must agree with me". If you suggest that they agree with your viewpoint and we could be just as united they seem to lose interest with the whole concept.

    It's just emotional bullying to paint people who disagree with the policies and opinions and somehow almost being the enemy and wanting to make the country fail.

  • myauntfanny
    myauntfanny

    Wow, crinklestein, great post. But I don't think you're really patriotic unless you paint little American flags on your fingernails.

  • Realist
    Realist

    black,

    Lincoln was a great leader and saw a fundamenally political and philosophical division in the nation at that time.

    again how is this different from what hussein saw?

    problem is ...patriotism leads to nationalism and to troubles. if the people wouldn'T fall for this BS than the leaders could not so easily sway the public to go to war.

  • little witch
    little witch

    Logan,

    Duly noted. And what you brought up about individualism vs collectivism is very true. This country is being torn by the two party system. Trying to fit ourselves into one party is divisive IMO. In their quests for votes, the political nominees use "platforms" that divide people, and that is an attrocity. At any rate, "United We Stand" does not mean agreement in all facets of politics. Let me clarify that I did not mean to call anyone stupid, what I meant to say was, I think the definition used was stupid. (sorry Patio, I meant no offense).

    Thats just not how I view the term, thats not how I understand it.

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim
    Really, is this a democratic or a bit on the totalitarian side slogan

    harldy... or is it your contention that disunity should be the democratic slogan? It means we united behind our chosen leaders in times of crisis, that our collective will as a nation can not be overcome. It seems many, even here in the US, would see us DIS- United, and at the mercy of the UN, or France, etc. There is plenty of room for dissent and discussion in a united democracy...but not for selling out.

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