What 'exactly' changed in Adam when he sinned?

by gumby 297 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  gumby

  This is just so darling! Me and LT Schizm are lovers again and we've decided to band together against Alan and Farkel and prove to them they don't know diddly bout fruitpickin.......the dumb bastards!

  LT, I don't think your question as to why Eve and hubby didn't quickly eat of the tree of life when they sensed guilt would be hard to understand from a believers perspective.

  Were I bible believer, I could see how god could have prevented that even though the scriptures do not mention the details of it. Besides.....they ran off and hid like a kid who just hit a baseball through dads garage window and didn't even think of taking time to grab a few life fruits off the tree......they were afraid!

  Soon as god saw they ran off, he cornered them in the back 40 and asked them why they were hiding their pee pee's. Adam, like a good man, passed the buck and blamed the wife, god knew he was full of crap, then ran their arses out of the garden and put hanz and fronz in front of the arch bricked mexican adobe entrance they had to go through to enter.......the garden had big walls around it....remember?

  I hope this answers suffices till Schizm gets back from the San Francisco 20 mile gay march this week. ( just kidding schizm.....ya fruity bastard!)

  Gumby
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  Schizm

  Gumby,

  Regarless of what the answer to this question is, it still makes no sense, nor is it justice by gods own standards.......to penalize all humanity because of two dipshits. I coulda stayed away from that damn tree.....I know I coulda!

  So, apparently, you feel that it is an injustice for a man's offspring to have something bad happen to him/her on the basis of what the father or mother had done. As an example, let's suppose the mother was heavily into drugs while pregnant and it resulted in the baby being born addicted to the drugs. And what about those babies that were born with deformities, all because of a certain type of birth control pill their mothers had taken. In neither of these cases was it the fault of the child, yet those children had to suffer the consequences of what their unwise parent had done. Would you say "it makes no sense"? If so, then it seems to me like you are denying the parents any responsibility for what happens to their own offspring. Another example: I have no doubts whatsoever that their are a number of young men serving time in prison simply because of the lack of parental guidance they received while growing up. Again, the parents fault but the offspring having to suffer for it.

  Comments?

  Schizm
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  gumby

  So, apparently, you feel that it is an injustice for a man's offspring to have something bad happen to him/her on the basis of what the father or mother had done.

  The bible clearly says " a son shall not suffer from his parents sins and that each answers for his own sin". How do you justift this statement?

  You are also talking about inherited genetic problems a child suffers as a result of his parents lifestyle, not "inherited sin". And yes....I DO think it is unjust that generations upon generations must sufer from the result of two.

  Gumby
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  Farkel

  : Once cut off from being allowed to eat from it his body began to age so that he eventually died, thereby proving that his continued existance depended upon the SPECIAL NUTRIENTS found in this tree alone.

  There's a fatal flaw in that assertion. It presupposes that man would live forever by eating from that tree. But nowhere in the Bible does it say that. Yes, it was supposedly the tree of "life," but that term can many other explanations, eternal life being but one of them.

  Farkel
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  Leolaia

  In view of Canaanite myth and Proverbs 3:13, 18, I am inclined to view the Tree of Life as a hypostasis of the life-giving goddess Asherah (iconically represented as a stylized tree or pole with a serpent), and thus its fruit is regenerative and has healing powers -- accounting for the seeming immortality of snakes who shed their skins and are restored to youth. The role of Asherah (who blows the breath of life into the healed person according to KTU 1.169, and who is clothed by her devotees according to 2 Kings 23:7) in medical spells and ensuring health is well attested. The Tree of Death, on the other hand, is described in an Edenic mythological text as having the power to kill snakes as well as serving as an antidote to their venom (KTU 1.100). Interesting, though, since the Asherah pole + snake cultic object known as the Nehushtan was also designed to cure victims of snake bite according to the OT (Numbers 21:8-9; 2 Kings 18:4). My suspicion, on the basis of the suggestion by B. Margalit, is that the serpent in the Garden is a chthonic ophidian deity of the underworld (possibly Mot), who induces Chawat (= Eve, another name for Asherah in Phoenician texts meaning "serpent") to consume from the Tree of Death, contaminating her life-giving powers as eventually inducing death to those she imparts life to. Or, assuming that the myth derives from a stage when Chawat was no longer viewed as the mother goddess but as the first human mother (who is still described with Asherah epithets in Genesis 3:20, 4:1), the story tells how she was tricked by Mot (the ophidian god of death who feasts on the dead) to consume from the Tree of Death, ensuring the deities of the underworld an eternal food supply through her descendents. Having been driven from the divine presence and access to the Tree of Life, Eve's descendents have no access to Asherah's healing and regenerative powers. This theme might involve an anti-Asherah polemic.
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  gumby

  Leolaia,.....you know that information is all lies from the devil to counter the lords work....what's wrong with you?
  

  Farkmeister,

  You just don't get it do ya? It's fruit baby......fruit!!! Jack Lalane was right all along and that little lee-a tard wearing healthy bastard is still tickin and can out-do both you and I in anything except sex.( I just have a feelin he can't get it clear up )

  I think schizm has got us by the balls.

  I figure god planned that had Eve not blown it ...like a woman does...he would have had seed gathering mexican farmers planting seeds from this Tree of Life throughout the planet so people would not run out of fruit and start to wither away. (Mexicans are good farmers......so no offence the Mexican people)

  The worst thing that could happen is you run out of fruit juice from a drought, or...you forgot to borrow some cuz you were getting low or sumthin, and you start to look older all the sudden. You finally get the fruit and eat/drink your ass offf for 3 days straight till ya start lookin healthy again, then ya back off. I can see this idea workin!

  Schizm,

  Here's some more justice for ya to chew on for awhile so you can gear up for the next onslaught of gettin your arse kicked

  Are we punished for the sins of others?

  Yes.

  No.

  Gen.9:21-25 "And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father .... And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan [Ham's son]; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren." Ex.20:5 , Dt.5:9 "I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." Ex.34:7 "Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children unto the third and to the fourth generation." Num.14:18 "Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." Dt.28:18 "Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body." 2 Sam.12:14 "The child also that is born unto thee shall surely die." 2 Sam.21:6-9 Let seven men of his sons be delivered unto us, and we will hang them up unto the LORD .... And he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the LORD." 1 Kg.2:33 "Their blood shall therefore return upon the head of Joab, and upon the head of his seed for ever." 1 Kg.21:29 "Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son's days will I bring the evil upon his house." 2 Kg.5:27 "The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever." Is.14:21 "Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers." Jer.16:10-11 "Wherefore hath the Lord pronounced all this great evil against us? ... Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the Lord." Jer.29:32 "Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will punish Shemaiah the Nehelamite, and his seed." Jer.32:18 "Thou ... recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them."

  Dt.24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." Jer.31:29-30 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity." Ezek.18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be u

  Gumby
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  Schizm

  Gumby,

  So, the way you would like to have it is for me to have to respond to the questions that YOU raise but you not be required to respond to the questions that I ask you first. You side-stepped my question, Gumby. Why? Did what I say go completely over you head?

  I had asked you:

  So, apparently, you feel that it is an injustice for a man's offspring to have something bad happen to him/her on the basis of what the father or mother had done. ... In neither of these cases was it the fault of the child, yet those children had to suffer the consequences of what their unwise parent had done. Would you say "it makes no sense"? If so, then it seems to me like you are denying the parents any responsibility for what happens to their own offspring.

  To tell you the truth, Gumby, I don't think you're listening. How can you participate in a conversation that you're not paying attention to?

  You further said:

  You are also talking about inherited genetic problems a child suffers as a result of his parents lifestyle, not "inherited sin".

  You missed the whole point of what I was saying, Gumby. Was it on purpose? I really have to wonder, because it is so simple that any child couldn't help but see the point. Perhaps it's that you hate being put on the defensive, and would much rather be on the offensive. If a person really understands a matter right in the first place, he shouldn't object to having to defend his way of thinking.

  Try harder, Gumby. And I'll then answer YOUR questions.

  Schizm

  .
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  gumby

  To tell you the truth, Gumby, I don't think you're listening. How can you participate in a conversation that you're not paying attention to?

  Don't sidestep the issue like the Watchtower does schizm, you still act like a dub. You spent your entire last post reprimanding me about not listening when it was clear I was showing you proof of your gods justice. We're talking about offspring suffering as a result of parental sin aren't we? Your saying it was just for god to allow mankind to suffer as a result of their parents, and I'm supplying scriptures where god said he would not act in that manner. What don't you understand?

  Gumby
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  Schizm

  You're what is called "a hopeless case," Gumby.

  Well, at least Elsewhere's puppy likes you.
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  gumby

  Gumbeastiality