To the theists (Christian or otherwise).... (page 6)

LittleToe

ROFL @ Etch-sketch comment.
Hehehe, that made my day!!!

El blanko

I believe there has to be a form of ultimate justice.

Absolutely

If God must allow "evil" in order to ensure "free will", then it is necessary that to remove evil, he will have to remove free will. Therefore, in paradise or heaven or whatever, there will either be evil just as there is now, or there will be no free will.

LittleToe

Hence why the doctrine of "Predestination" struggles with the dichotomy of "Man's responsibility" v's "God's Sovereignty".

Raising at least the following two questions:
To what extent is "free will" free?
What can be categorically considered to be "evil"?

Abaddon

Good point Ross, if we are (and as far as we can determine it, we are) biological machines where our output and actions is controlled by input and programming, we are essentailly lots and lots and lots of little switches. Set the siwtches like SO, and this happens. Set the switches like SO and something else happens.

In other words, there is no such thing as 'freewill', it's just the way we percieve the working of our mind.

Corvin

Raising at least the following two questions:
To what extent is "free will" free?
What can be categorically considered to be "evil"?

Good questions, LT. What are some of the possibilities in your opinion?

Corvin

funkyderek

To what extent is "free will" free?

I'm unable to be invisible, no matter how much I want to be. Clearly free will isn't absolute, or it would be the same as omnipotence.

Why could I not be prevented from hurting someone in the same way I am prevented from turning invisible? Would my free will really be compromised?

LittleToe

Corvin:
As I mentioned earlier, I lean towards predestination, of which Gyles demonstrated a biological version of this.
Regarding evil, jgnat brings up a good point, which I'll rephrase: Is evil an event or an intent?

I really only have questions on this subject.
It has bamboozled people for as long as there have been people.

Kudos to Bradley, for presenting a serious question in a respectful way (likewise to the contributors, also, thusfar).

peacefulpete

As beings having evolved in smallish social groups we instinctively empathize with fellow humans ( it has worked for the survival our our species) however, self interest becomes more manifest in settings when greater anonimity is possible or the reward is more immediate. These instincts can be cultivated (for group empathy or self interest) because of our large primate brains. This is our stuggle.

logansrun

From a materialist philosophical perspective one might try Daniel Dennet's "Freedom Evolves" which supposedly is a defense of both free will and determinism. The latest "Skeptic" magazine (the one run by Michael Shermer) has an article on the same subject. I have not read either, though, so I am not free to comment.

From a theological perspective Augustine philosophized (if I am not mistaken) that humans possess both free will and are predestined. Now, I don't claim to be a theist, much less an Augustinian Christian, but that seems more reasonable an approach to the subject of God's allowing evil than the JW version (which, surprisingly, so many here seem to find logical). Here's why:

It has to do with the concept of time. Time is both relative and had a beginning, ie. the Big Bang. Any hypothetical creator would have to exist outside of time, in His own time if you will. The JW's say that God is IN time, what is more, in HUMAN time. Their argument goes that God NEVER KNEW that evil would have occurred in the first place; that he only can foretell the future if he wants to. This neccessitates that God experiences time in the same way that humans do, which sounds utterly ridiculous when one considers that time is relative; time slows down as one approaches the speed of light; time is experienced differently if one is travelling around the globe in a spaceship, etc.

The only way a "Creator" could exist is if he was OUTSIDE of time in some way. He would experience all of time as one eternal "Now."

Remember too that the JWs say God allows evil to prove that he has the right to rule, which would seem axiomatic. Not only that, but even if God was "in time" from a human perspective, why not simply use His foreknowledge to show his creatures (both human and angel) what WOULD happen if humans ruled themselves. Then the entire matter would be settled without having to actually go through the process of demonstrating a self-evident truth.

If anyone sees a flaw in my reasoning please let me know.

Bradley

To the theists (Christian or otherwise)....

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