A Review By Carl Jonsson Of Rolf Furuli'sBook On Chronology.

by hillary_step 80 Replies latest jw friends

  • scholar
    scholar

    Alan F

    So are we to assume that Jonsson has contributed nothing to chronology with his hypothesis? Are we to assume that Jonsson has simply done a 'cut and paste' with the work of serious scholars or has he simply borrowed heavily from the work of the Seventh Day Adventists? Why after all these years his work has not been peer reviewed? Jonsson has the gaul to review the work of others namely Furuli and Faulstich but has not had his work peer reviewed and then expects his work to be taken seriously. It is merely a biased distortion of the secular evidence, biblical history and theology.

    scholar

    BA MA Studies in Religion

  • City Fan
    City Fan

    Scholar,

    At least two things that I found suspect about Furuli's book are included in Jonsson's review, the criticism or Berossus and the subject of Jeremiah 25:11.

    As usual you've come onto this thread attacking Jonsson's book. You said he "simply repeats his tired assertions". I'm getting tired of your assertions.

    When you contacted Furuli by phone did you ask him why he has not included a chronological chart that includes 607 BC? Did you also ask him why his book is published by himself R. Furuli A/S and not an independent book publisher as in the case of Jonsson's book? Would any publisher have been willing to publish Furuli's work?

    I'd be very interested in reading other reviews of his work by these 'fifteen sources/journals'. He did give you the name of any of these?

    I've purchased many of the books referenced in Jonsson's book and have found him to be extremely accurate. He really has covered most of the evidence for 586/587, as well as answering any problems with this evidence.

    CF.

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    #PARODY_MODE ON

    Non-scholar said:

    : So are we to assume that Jonsson has contributed nothing to chronology with his hypothesis?

    This he has done with only a matter of months of publication.

    : Are we to assume that Jonsson has simply done a 'cut and paste' with the work of serious scholars

    1998 14 lines of evidence against 607

    : or has he simply borrowed heavily from the work of the Seventh Day Adventists?

    I have Furuli's Review of Jonsson's Exegesis and again demonstrates a pitiful attempt to refute Jonsson's Exegesis.

    : Why after all these years his work has not been peer reviewed?

    I already explained this, you twit.

    : Jonsson has the gaul

    Charles De Gaulle was a Gaul, but Jonsson is Swedish.

    #PARODY_MODE OFF

    : to review the work of others namely Furuli and Faulstich

    Faulstich is wrong about Bible chronology, just as Furuli is wrong. Jonsson writes: "I have thoroughly refuted Faulstich?s thesis in the unpublished article, "A critique of E.W. Faulstich?s Neo-Babylonian chronology" (1999), available from me upon request."

    Not only is Faulstich wrong, but his chronology contradicts Furuli's and the Watchtower's chronologies at every point. For example, Faulstich's chronology places the fall of Babylon in 540, not 539 B.C. ( http://www.mashiach6000.org/Mashiach6000/Mashiach6000.html ) -- a date that everyone but Faulstich agrees on. Faulstich's only point of agreement with Furuli is that the astronomical diary VAT 4956 is somehow messed up. But they don't seem to agree on how it's supposed to be messed up.

    Faulstich is, in fact, a young-earth creationist crackpot whose "Bible chronology" differs from Furuli's at every point in time. So your invoking Faulstich as an authority in support of Furuli is absurd.

    Here are some examples of Faulstich's crazy chronology:

    From Faulstich's own website:

    http://www.mashiach6000.org/Mashiach6000/Mashiach6000.html
    If we add up the recorded years in the Bible, we find that the world was 3413 years old when the First Temple was destroyed in 588 B.C.E. 588 B.C.E. can be validated through astronomy, an exact science. By adding 588 B.C.E. to 3413, we can determine that the universe on April 5 of 2000 C.E. will be 6000 years (588 + 3413 - 1 + 2000 = 6000).

    Note how this differs from Furuli's and the Watchtower's claim that the First Temple was destroyed in 607 B.C. and that 6000 years of human history ended in 1975 A.D.

    Next note Faulstich's date for the creation of the earth:

    http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/wwwofcreationism,%20Some%20Creationist%20Characters.htm
    Besides the geocentrists, there are geobiblical chronologists. One of these is E. W. Faulstich, the proprietor of the Chronology History Research Institute in Rossie, Iowa. A computer expert Faulstich has calculated that the Earth was created in 4,001 B C. -- not 4,004 B.C. as calculated by Archbishop Ussher. Sunday, March 17, to be precise.

    The creation of man would have been five days later, in 4001 B.C. -- not in 4026 B.C. as the Watchtower (and I'm sure Furuli) holds.

    Next we find that Faulstich and the Watchtower disagree about the date of Noah's Flood (2370 B.C. by WTS reckoning) by 25 years:

    http://www.biu.ac.il/JH/Parasha/eng/noah/kav.html
    Recently Gene Faulstich, from the Iowa Research Institute, proved the exact date of the flood to have been 2,345 B.C.E. Using methods from astronomy, he dated the onset of the flood precisely to the 14th of May in that year.

    Finally we note that Faulstich's date for the Exodus differs from the Watchtower's (1513 B.C.) by 52 years:

    http://www.triumphpro.com/bible_chronology_and_prophecy!.htm
    History itself is the greatest arbiter to evaluate chronology. If a chronological system doesn't fit the facts, then it must be corrected. The essential idea may be sound, but errors in data throw off the results. Then again, the essential idea sometimes may need reworking. Faulstich is off on the date of the Passover during the Exodus and the death of Christ as well as the year for both. He places the Exodus in 1461 B.C., thirty years later than the received chronology, and the birth of Christ in 6 B.C., two years before His actual birth. He also erroneously places the crucifixion on the 15th of Nisan, instead of the 14th, and says it was a Friday, instead of Thursday. These errors prove his program is faulty.

    In summary, non-scholar, you mention Faulstich not because his chronology agrees with Furuli's, but merely because on one small point the two agree that there is a problem with one point of evidence in favor of the standard secular chronology. As usual, your invocation of a supposed scholar is thoroughly dishonest and actually disproves your claims.

    : but has not had his work peer reviewed and then expects his work to be taken seriously.

    I already explained this, you twit.

    : It is merely a biased distortion of the secular evidence,

    What evidence?

    : biblical history

    What history?

    : and theology.

    What theology?

    AlanF

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Scholar,

    Hypothetically speaking.

    Why after all these years his work has not been peer reviewed?

    If we were to ensure that his work was peer reviewed, and the reviews were favorable, would this ensure that you denounce the WTS chronology and its replicant bastard offspring, the 'Oslo Chronology'? Or would merely continue to rail against the conclusions of every real expert in the field? Are you interested in truth or fiction? A few more pertinent questions for you to ignore?

    One day I am going to list all the questions that you have ignored in dealing with these chronological issues that you assume to know something about, I may even have it peer reviewed in the Seventh Day Adventist, 'Book Of The Dead'.

    HS

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    Hey, Alan and HS

    Scholar reminds me of a peewee ball leaguer swooning as he admires his Furuli and Watchtower bubblegum cards. So long as he has his idol pictures to coo over and hold tightly at bedtime under the sheets why should we ruin the fantasy? He won?t be interested in the facts of life until adolescence.

    Marvin Shilmer

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    HS:

    One day I am going to list all the questions that you ["scholar"] have ignored in dealing with these chronological issues that you assume to know something about,

    A daunting task; are you sure you have enough "chronological" age left to complete such a project?

    edit to add: Another one of my favorites--

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/55372/1.ashx

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    city fan,

    You have learned well, grasshopper!

    : This is a form of ad hominem argument called "poisoning the well," in which someone presents unfavorable information (true or false) about an opponent to suggest that any claim he makes is probably false. In other words, it is an attempt to bias the audience.

    Exactly. "You commited adultery in the past. Therefore, your statement that blue happens to actually be "blue" cannot be trusted."

    Furuli is a pimp for the WTS. He cannot be trusted to be honest and scholarly anymore than that other pimp Firpo Carr can be trusted to be scholarly. I saw the latter pimp on FOX News blather his blather on the Michael Jackson case, and even as non-intuititive as I am, I saw a scumbag liar at his scumbag lying finest.

    Anyone who is a dub is highly suspect of being either dishonest, or being a pimp. Either way, it's ugly.

    Farkel

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    bavman,

    : never got the chance to read jonsson's book. could someone pls tell me a synopsis? thanks.

    No. I haven't even finished it, and I've been reading parts of it for five years. And I'm FEARLESS!

    There is no spoon-feeding you on Carl's book. You have to slog through it yourself. If you are too lazy to do that, then too bad for you. We don't run a nursery for lazy people in here.

    Farkel

  • scholar
    scholar

    Alan F

    You are a clown, In point of fact I know nothing about Faulstich because to date I have not read his research but one day I will buy his book. I only mentioned his name because Jonsson in his review of Furuli had referred to an earlier review of Faulstich. Yet because I mentioned his name you immediately make all kind of stupid comparisons. In point of fact you dummie I only mentioned Faulstich because Jonsson has the hide to review the work of others yet has not got the courage to have his book reviewed. Why do not you along with other members of of the Editorial committee encourage Jonsson to have the book peer reviewed? I have an opinion as to why this has not happened and it is because Jonsson does not want his interpretation of the seventy years challenged or criticized.

    scholar

  • scholar
    scholar

    hilary_step

    You betray an ignorance regarding the nature and substance of peer review. All scholars have their scholarship peer reviewed. When scholars submit and article to a recognized journal for publication, the editor of the journal submits copies to other referees prior to publication. A literature review is part and parcel of the academic process and is the appropriate course especially when such research is new or controversial or seeks to advance the scholarship. Whether the Jonsson hypothesis is favorable or not is besides the point and would not influence my opinion as to its overall aim which is to discredit and disprove 607. But I would like to see what other scholars have to say because it would be of great benefit to the general public.

    scholar

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