"for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Deputy Dog, Exactly. God gave us free will and had foreknowledge that A & E would eat of the fruit. He didn't have to create the evil, He didn't have to make A & E know it, A & E chose it. It is interesting to note that this evil that was introduced to A& E came from another created being that was also given free will, and his end is the most clearly explained in the scriptures. michelle Rev 20:10 And the Devil, who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Freedom to Choose God
by UnDisfellowshipped 774 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Deputy Dog
michelle
But, the scriptures say God created everything.
Isa 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things .Pro 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.D Dog
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outbutnotdown
LT,
Not to sound too harsh, but I think your statement of not deliberating, just doing is a contradiction to many of your other posts. It may be partly true, but your "just doing" seems to be based on the "Christian" idea of just doing, and by having that built-in "barometer", you are not just doing. If you were taught to steal, and you continued to steal, would you blame the people who had possessions for "enabling you to steal" or would you realize that the people who taught you to steal are the problem, not the ones who made it possible simply through being the unwilling victim?
Your last point is mine, exactly.......... I don't ask if what I do is based on the "Christian" way of doing it....... too much contradiction there........ too many theories that have caused so much hatred...... I don't want to be "Christian"....... and not because their basic philosophies are flawed..... they are not..... I don't want to be Christian because it has become an "I'm better than you" sort of religion, and I think life is more relative than that judgemental way of thinkng.
In summation, I would be stupid to think that I can't learn from you, personally. I have and still do, but it is not based merely on some pre-conceived ideas, but rather on those pre-conceived ideas, (which are inevitable), AND a continuing evoltion of my thought process.
Keep being you, BTW. I wouldn't want it any other way.
Brad
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LittleToe
Brad:What do you make of Gal.5:16, 17?
It is in that context that I speak of "doing right, with no concern for whether or not it is 'Christian'".DDog:
We know the answer to that. The way it went is fairer. That's why I think they were created so that they "would" sin. I think scripture supports this.
I believe that the way it went is potentially fairer, and tidier, but it's mere speculation on my part.
If my surmation is in any way near the mark, then I still hold that in all eventualities God "permitted" sin to occur, rather than actively formed it from the dust (so to speak).
Maybe that's me projecting a human sensibility onto Him, but aside from Isa.45:7 (which I've still not yet found time to study) I see nothing to successfully oppose that position. -
ellderwho
Thanks for the link LT.
It is interesting to note that this evil that was introduced to A& E came from another created being that was also given free will,
Is God somehow caught off guard?
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funkyderek
myelaine:
Exactly. God gave us free will and had foreknowledge that A & E would eat of the fruit.
How could they have free will if their behaviour was foreordained?
He didn't have to create the evil,
No he didn't. Being omnipotent, he could have created a world with free will and without evil. But he chose not to. Why?
He didn't have to make A & E know it, A & E chose it.
They chose nothing. They were part of a game they could never have understood.
It is interesting to note that this evil that was introduced to A& E came from another created being that was also given free will, and his end is the most clearly explained in the scriptures.
So what caused that being to become evil? Was he created evil or defective?
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LittleToe
Gah!!!
Now even Derek is becoming a HyperCalvinist...
... b*st*rds, the lot of 'em!!!
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funkyderek
Now even Derek is becoming a HyperCalvinist...
As much as I despise Calvinism, the existence of an omniscient creator necessarily implies predestination for his creation. If I believed in such a being then I would probably be a "HyperCalvinist" - not that I'd have any choice in the matter, of course.
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ellderwho
Gah!!!
Now even Derek is becoming a HyperCalvinist...
... b*st*rds, the lot of 'em!!!
LOLWe're coming out of the woodwork.
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LittleToe
LOL
How was the birthday?I spent the weekend fighting an absess, so I wasnt good for much in the way of anything.