Faced with loss of tax breaks, Danish WTS drops "Bible-Based" stance

by Nathan Natas 78 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex

    One of my therapists gave me this example about pedophilia:

    "I've got a child, and there have been times when he has smarted off to me, or left his toys out or thrown a fit that I have been angry enough to hit him. Now I am in no way advocating violence against children or excusing it, but anyone who has been around children long enough can imagine getting angry enough to do it."

    Then she said:

    "Now try to imagine looking at the same child and finding them sexually attractive. Look at the difference in thought process and the huge gulf between the two behaviors and realize how far out of the norm of human behavior pedophilia really is."

    I thought of that when I read this:

    Pedophillia is just a fetish

    Wow.

    God bless ya XQ, if you have "no problem" with pedophilia that says more about your values and mind set than I really wanted to know.

    This same therapist told me she had to stop treating sex offenders as it was just too hard on her. Not one, according to her, expressed any remorse or saw anything wrong in raping a child.

    Evil and predatory, not a fetish. Not "just", with the conotation of minimizing. Your attitude is not only stunningly ignorant but it's dangerous as well.

    This has been a very difficult post for me to write.

    [deleted personal information that was too revealing]

  • waiting
    waiting

    Hey Big Tex,

    I'm sorry that this type of thread is so difficult for you - but sometimes it can be strengthening to be able to discuss the different sides to a situation. Please don't feel that the following is argumentative towards you..........just another side of the coin in this discussion.

    "Now try to imagine looking at the same child and finding them sexually attractive. Look at the difference in thought process and the huge gulf between the two behaviors and realize how far out of the norm of human behavior pedophilia really is."

    Acceptable statement..........but LOOKING at a child and finding them sexually attractive is far different than molesting and/or raping a child.......just as with an adult looking at another adult sexually.....it doesn't equate to a crime.

    There IS a difference in thought process - but then a person who really enjoys sex with shoes has a different thought process too......and that's not necessarily a crime either...but a fetish.

    There are different types of pedophiles - even by law, they are coded in different catagories. Like other criminals, there are various degrees of crimes & pedophiles and/or child molesters/child rapists/child killers.

    IF a pedophile breaks no law, then they aren't criminals. Or the laws might need to be changed to address different situations.

    Btw, if the above is a direct quote from your therapist, fair enough. But my therapist did not use the terms " how far out of the norm of human behavior pedophilia really is." Why? Because it might be so in OUR society .......but in different societies, there are different norms. I believe she quoted me on some Hawaiian tribes who tradionally have sex with children. No child is hurt (within their societal norms) and it's been happening for hundreds of years. It's accepted in their norms & has been long term studied by psychologists. No apparent harm to their children. And, no, I don't agree with the practice.

    We, as a Western society, don't have the right to dictate world norms. Just our own. Even then, it gets dicey sometimes. Like who can marry who, eh?

    waiting

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex

    Howdy waiting.

    Nah, it's okay. Just the original shock of seeing that statement astounded me.

    but LOOKING at a child and finding them sexually attractive is far different than molesting and/or raping a child

    Of course. My point is that, from what little is really understood about offenders, is that there is little to no impulse control. We've all had sexual fantasies that we would never actually participate in. A pedophile often acts the desire out, partially because they see nothing wrong with the act.

    There are different types of pedophiles - even by law, they are coded in different catagories. Like other criminals, there are various degrees of crimes & pedophiles and/or child molesters/child rapists/child killers.

    Cautious agreement. I do not know enough about the subject to be able to discuss it intelligently, but on a gut level my response would pedophilia, like murder, is still wrong in whatever degree it is expressed.

    IF a pedophile breaks no law, then they aren't criminals. Or the laws might need to be changed to address different situations.

    Well sure, and I don't want to live in a police state where thoughts become crimes. Good Lord, we'd all end up in prison. It's just that, again, from what little I've read pedopiles have little impulse control. Look at the difference in impact on a life with pedophilia versus say, shoplifting. What do we do? Right now, I'd vote for more research and more stringent prison time.

    Because it might be so in OUR society .......but in different societies, there are different norms

    Well now we're opening up several arguments, one being absolute morality. I don't really want to argue that one again, although I will in my opinion, say a sexual relationship with a child cannot be emotionally healthy.

    Lady Lee posted this once, it is a quote from the founders of the False Memory Foundation:

    You might also want to look at page 38 where the above mentionned Underwager when asked "Is choosing paedophilia for you a responsible choice for the individual?" in an interview with Geraci in 1993 stated:
    Certainly it is responsible. What I have been struck by as I have come to
    know more about and understand people who choose paedophilia is
    that they let themselves be too much defined by other people. That is
    usally an essentially negative definition. Paedophiles spend a lot of
    time and energy defending their choice. I don't think a paedophile needs
    to do that. _Paedophiles can boldly and courageously affirm what they
    choose. They can say that what they want is to find the best way to love.
    I am also a theologian and as a theologian I believe it is God's will
    that there be closeness and intimacy, unity of the flesh, between people.
    A paedophile can say: "This closeness is possible for me whithin the
    choices I have made."
    Quote:
    Another member of the advisory board of FMSF suggested that
    "It would be nice if someone could get some kind of big research grant
    to do a longitudinal study of, let's say, a hundred twelve-year-old boys in
    relationships with loving paedophiles. Whoever was doing the study
    would have to follow them at five-year intervals for twenty years.
    Quote:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/8/53848/3.ashx

    Waiting, for your statement to be proved true, such a study would have to be authorized. I'm as open minded as the next person, but I draw the line at consenting adults. A child is not aware, nor should not be made aware, of the intracacies of a sexual relationship. A child is dealing from a position of weakness in such a relationship, on a physical level and most especially, on an emotional one. An adult seeking such a relationship is manipulating that child, the child becomes an object and such an adult has some serious emotional problems.

    I'm sorry but a man marrying a 6 year old boy is wrong on so many levels, other cultures be damned.

  • zen nudist
    zen nudist

    has anyone considered the following:

    Pedophiles are acting on what they are often if not always aware, an impulse which may get them killed or worse....

    that is one mighty powerful impulse and apparently laws, threats of death and violence has had no great effect on it.

    but from a pedophiles point of view, would it not make sense for them murder their victims to avoid punishment?

    giving them no chance of forgiveness and no option but death or worse, I would think they would feel trapped and desperate beyond their already uncontrollable urges, no?

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Zen:Do you feel the same about adult rapists?
    Were they just following uncontrollable urges?

    Castration is too good for them, IMHO...

  • galaxy7
    galaxy7
    C. If the accused denies the accusation in front of the two elders and it is word against word, therefore no judicial committee would be formed. The Bibles demands that there must be two or three witnesses for a decision to be made. It is the nature of such cases that there are rarely any witnesses. The elders can therefore only intervene if there is strong circumstantial evidence or if another eye witness can testify to similar abuse. If not they will have to place the matter in Jehovah's Hands. (1 Timothy 5: 19, 24, 25)

    This hasnt changed??how many eyewitnesses does a pedophile usually have?

  • XQsThaiPoes
    XQsThaiPoes

    In Japan the federal age of consent is 13. They left it up to each prefecture to sort out the age when social workers start grilling the parents and adult love interest. Apperently if you are a foreigner or gangster you can be implicated in pimping quite liberaly and go to jail a looong time. Also it is rape if the Child or parents say so. The state can't press charges in their behalf. Now this in mind they law is weird. If you charm the parents and child you and have sex with anyone over 13 legaly. The legal jepordy an adult is placed in makes it insane to engage in a adult adolencent relationship unless it is magicaly smooth as glass. I believe it is great concept, but would not work in the western world. For obivous reasons.

    So you can have this study in Japan legaly.

  • ApagaLaLuz
    ApagaLaLuz
    just like eating poo pedophilia is a fetish

    Hey Thai, I love ya man I gotta say this: Both are sick and disgusting. If someone says "Hi my name is Tom (hope i'm not offending anyone by picking this name) I like to eat poo," he would usually get a sickened and disgusted reaction from people. Same as if "Hi my name is Tom, I enjoy pedophilia". In my opinion pedophila simply fans the flames of a sickened and disgusting craving, one that is unnatural. Also, killing people is a fetish too done for sexual gratification.

    p.s. I'm sure my point has already been expressed too, I just havent gotten a chance to finish reading the whole thread yet, I just saw "eating poo" and HAD to respond.

    Also I wanted to add that Britney Spears' more racier videos were done after she turned 18. And granted children are looking older than their age nowdays. Personally I think there's a difference between a grown man who is attracted to a mature looking 16 year old, than a grown man who is attracted to an obvious 11 year old.

  • ApagaLaLuz
    ApagaLaLuz

    Oh yah..... I'm still confused as to how this subject got brought up in a thread with this title

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex
    Another member of the advisory board of FMSF suggested that
    "It would be nice if someone could get some kind of big research grant
    to do a longitudinal study of, let's say, a hundred twelve-year-old boys in
    relationships with loving paedophiles. Whoever was doing the study
    would have to follow them at five-year intervals for twenty years.
    Quote:

    XQ, good Lord where do I start?

    Please read what I actually posted. The quote was about 12 year old boys and adult men. I am not familiar with Japanese law, but I feel safe in taking the position that pedophilia is against the law in Japan.

    You know, I do not have the temperment to argue mindlessly. Some people do. But God almighty, you do not have any idea what you are saying. It's not often on this board that I have felt as speechless as I am now. You are feeling triumphant?

    I mean at least with waiting I can carry on an intelligent dialogue, we may disagree or at least take opposite sides but I understand where she is coming from.

    I think if a subject begins to affect me on a physical or emotinal level then it's time for me to back out and the bizarre statements by you are affecting me, so I'm done with this thread. Knock yourself out.

    XQ, I don't know you nor do I want to.

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