Sometimes I Hate Being The Father Of Teenagers . . .

by Corvin 61 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  LDH

  How did I miss that? She expressly went against my rule, violated it

  I guess I will be the anti-christ. I don't have very many rules. Rules go against human nature. I have a 'results' based approach.

  I've never censored the music my kid listens to....except to expose her to MUSICIANS. For a while when she was 8 or 9 it was BackButt Boys and the Spoof Girls....But she played trumpet for years and now having played the drums for almost 3 years, she wants to listen to MUSICIANS. Not music. Her 9th grade essay on "hero" was written about Paul Simon. Who she waid wasn't her hero, but who she learned from how to write lyrics that express what you feel. Yes, I have taken her to many concerts (3 AFI) but she has also been to see Metallica, Chicago, Styx, Peter Frampton, and a ton of others that I can't think of right now. On July 2nd we're taking her to see Simon and Garfunkel. She was so happy she cried. Come to think of it, I cried too at $200 a ticket.

  I think rules are overrated. I have a great kid, A student, all wrapped up in band. I don't have to make very many rules because we always talk about things. Sometimes she makes choices that I don't approve of and she pays the price.

  The only thing not allowed in our house is destructive behavior, of self or others. As long as I don't see that exhibited, knock yourself out. I am fully aware that she will not always be in my home, and I prefer that instead of following my RULES she learns how to self-discipline within boundaries. Because the last thing I want to unleash on the world is a gorgeous young woman with no sense of how to set her own boundaries.

  Just my two. By the way, that music was off the chain. I'm going to have her burn me a CD of them. Dead Poetic, eh?

  Lisa

  Mother of a teen, and a toddler Class
• 

  Corvin

  Rules go against human nature.

  Yes, I think I read that in a book by a so-called child care professional who ended up having to apologize for an entire generation of delinquents. I suppose spanking is never warranted either?
  

  I have a 'results' based approach.

  Me too. You break the rules you have to deal with the results . . . which may or may not include Dad's verbal/physical foot up your ass. We are not talking about censorship here which is a pretty effed up and intellectually intimidating term to use with a parent who a has thus far done a fairly good job with his kids . . . and that's what it is sometimes; a job. We are talking about "regulating" what comes into my house and what the kids are focussing on. I abhore all that some kinds of music is associated to, the culture it represents and by God, I will fight to keep my kids away from getting sucked up into that shit and God help the one that gets between me and my kids.

  Alright, this is stupid. Some of you parents actually think that there is no kind of music, art and literature out there that has absolutely no place in your child's collection, let alone in your house????? You are full of crap. OR, yours must be that little brat in the grocery store pitching a fit and screaming its little head off because he/she can't have the bottle of bubbles she saw on TV before you left to go shopping. You must be the parent that patiently/sickeningly let's them cry, scream, hit, throw things and call you names . . . in that same store in front of all to gasp at. Give me a break with your liberal crap. My house, my kids, my rules. They are kids, they will and do rebel, sneak, whatever . . . I am not a watchdog, but I do try to keep up on what's going on under my own roof. If it isn't welcome here whether or not it is my own personal preference or not, it is not coming in here. If the kids bring it in here after I have spent hours being the "good dad" communication why I do not want that crap in my house or them listening to it, they will get punished. I am as big of an ass as some worthless and weak parents if I did not set boundaries BASED ON WHAT I THINK IS APPROPRIATE- NOT WHAT A 17 YEAR OLD THINKS IS APPROPRIATE, AND THEN REINFORCE those boundaries WITH DISCIPLINE. How's that for results?

  I swear to Jehovah it must be nice living in some of your heads with the cast of 7th Heaven.

  [edited to say] If you get the idea that I am inflexible, you have not read all my posts in this thread. You do not teach a child to set their own boundaries by not setting an example by setting boundaries for them in the beginning. Let me know how that works out for you.

  Corvin
• 

  Corvin

  . . . and what the hell does it mean "to have social conscience" anyway? That's another bs buzzword that has lost its meaning in these times. Their social conscience is partly based on the principle that says you should not encroach upon the rights and consciences of others.
• 

  SixofNine

  :Yes, I think I read that in a book by a so-called child care professional who ended up having to apologize for an entire generation of delinquents. I suppose spanking is never warranted either?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  <end sarcasm>
  
  I think you f'd up Corvin. What I see more than anything else here is how strongly YOU feel about music. You've obviously done alot of things right with your kids (I think I've commented on this before, if not, salute!), so I doubt something like this will come back to bite you, but I ain't buying the "good parenting" excuse for your emotional outburst, and I doubt your daughter is either.
  
  
  
  
• 

  LDH

  Hi there Six. I wish we were closer, I think our kids would like each other a lot. Hope you are well.

  Corvin, I don't live in 7th Heaven land. Like my post says, I also have a toddler. Rules are very appropriate for him. Don't go in the street; stay away from the pool, blah blah blah.

  But by the time kids are in middle school they are well able to understand (or should be, anyhow) how choices will affect their lives. And they should have to take responsibility for them. This is why I don't like parents who use the "mistake" excuse. "Little Johnny made a mistake!" No, dumb-ass, Little Johnny mad a BAD DECISION. There is a huge difference.

  Drinking and driving? Not an 'accident'--a result of a choice. Joy-riding? Not a "mistake"--a choice. I just see it differently is all. I think my daughter is smart enough to understand the difference.

  And by the way, my kid did ask me about the possibility of getting a tattoo "one of these days when I'm older." I pointed out to her that her drum teacher (who plays with Pattituci and some of the other jazz greats) is a REAL musician, not a pretend one. He actually earns a good living by writing scores for Colleges and high schools, as well as being a very talented studio drummer. He is about 35, he and his WIFE live in a great house (she teaches clarinet), and all of the teens think he is the BOMB. I asked her if he has any tattoos (no) and why not? Because it might affect his employability in certain schools and the bottom line is that having a tattoo is not more important to him than doing what he loves and earning money from it. She was smart enough to see that too. That was two years ago, the subject has never come up since. If it does, we'll deal with it then. The point is that I could have gone through the roof and put the smack down about "no tattoos in this house young lady" but I chose not to, and it worked. I'm just trying to do what works, just like you Corvin.

  Corvin, I ain't knockin your style, but you had to expect feedback, eh?

  Lisa
• 

  Corvin

  I think you f'd up Corvin. What I see more than anything else here is how strongly YOU feel about music. You've obviously done alot of things right with your kids (I think I've commented on this before, if not, salute!), so I doubt something like this will come back to bite you, but I ain't buying the "good parenting" excuse for your emotional outburst, and I doubt your daughter is either.

  Ok, you get points for missing the point too . . . and that was not an emotional outburst. Most of it was sarcasm as well. Let's check back with eachother in a few years and compare stories then.

  Corvin
• 

  LDH

  Corvin,

  Do you think your avatar insults some people's sense of what's proper? I guess to some people, it could look demonic. But I am sure you are not a Lord of the House of Evil,no?

  I'm sure your daughter is just trying to figure out who she is. I don't know know you at all, but if you are trying to do right by your kids, you can't be THAT bad.

  Lisa

  Don't Tread on Me Class
• 

  Corvin

  LDH, 6 of 9, in all of your liberal rhetoric and implying I am somehow displaying the prudish mindset of a JW, (and I can take a sardonic ribbing), you still did not answer my question . . . and it is a fair question.
  

  Some of you parents actually think that there isn't any kind of music, art and literature out there that has absolutely no place in your child's collection, let alone in your house?????

  Well, what is it? Yes or no?
• 

  GentlyFeral

  Corvin, I applaud your standing up for your convictions about the value, or lack of value, of the CD's you destroyed.

  But I think you give the "art" in question too much power.

  Like you, I do believe that there is art that does not belong in our house. But when I was a (lax and liberal) jaydub, I censored my children's music and book collections very lightly. On those rare occasions when I disapproved of something, I explained why, in detail, and then let it lie; because I knew that listening to Too Short or reading Clive Barker was not going to turn them into rapists and murderers - or even harden their hearts appreciably. The only other censoring I did was to pre-read every issue of Fantasy and Science Fiction and pass on "embarrassment alerts". They knew, though I don't remember asking, to keep the stuff I disliked out of my sight and hearing.

  I think down deep you harbor the assumption that some art has the power to corrupt the hearer/viewer; that a person can be "ruined by a book," in Mencken's immortal phrase. Drag that assumption out into the light of day and stare it down, please.

  GentlyFeral
• 

  Abaddon

  Corvin, one main thing that comes over is that you believe you are right about this to the extent you're unwilling to tolerate disagreement.

  This is so true that your attitude to parents with different parenting styles boils down to saying 'see what happens in a few years', as though you think we will have learnt the error of our parenting ways by then and can tell you how right you are; do we need to do that? You seem to know already.

  Obviously it's your right to do what you're doing, but it still doesn't mean you are right. There's a difference between;

  "You're not coming home at 4am 'cause all your friends do sweetheart, I know you'd be fine most of the time but it's the times that you wouldn't be fine because of SOMEONE ELSE'S actions (an unarguable fact) that make me say no, and make it something where what I say goes."

  ... and;

  "I think you're not mature enough to listen to this music (opinion one) because I feel such anger in music can be damaging (opinion two) and I feel that anger and angst as portrayed in this music does not have a constructive end (opinion three)."

  Your 17 year-old daughter almost certainly realises this.

  One it's reasonable being unmovable (and offering to do compilatiosn is akin to offering to give someone a book back after you've taken out the chapters YOU don't like; it's not really compromise, it just looks like it but you still get 100% your own way) about as it's factual. The other... well, you don't know at the end of the day that you are right, do you? But you're certainly willing to behave as though it were something factual. Immovability over something that is ultimately a matter of opinion is not as reasonable as immovability over something that is factual.

  I'm glad you take an interest in other things and not just the obvious. You say;

  I do not object to controversial material when it goes a bit further than just vile language and solutionless angst.

  Hmmmm... I think a lot of 'violent music' (or at least what I'd term violent) ALSO goes a bit further than just vile language and solutionless angst. I mean, I know people who would describe (for example) Radiohead as 'solutionless angst', whereas I find their music addresses angst and finds joy in unexpected places (listen to 'Lucky'). Eminem is another example where seemingly violent or misogynistic or homophobic 'roles' within his songs allow him to better criticize the actions of such people.

  The drive to work thing would show you that no matter what you think and no matter what your level of maturity, some music will get you to work five minutes quicker. Try it.

  Re. violent movies; seems that a lot of people are worse off than "a mindless person".

  I lost the URL for this and can't be aresed to look for it again as I'm on dial-up today...

  Many psychologists seem to agree that the more violence viewed, the more accepting children are of violence, the more it desensitizes them, and the more likely they are to become violent. Dr. Eron and Huesman of the University of Ilinois did a 22 year study of violent behavior due to "a diet of violent entertainment."

  The quarter of the children with the heaviest exposure to violence in 1960 at ages nine and ten were found to be convicted of of criminal offences during their adult lives 150% more often than the quarter of children with the smallest exposure to violent entertainment.

  One final thing that has also been bothering me. With such absolutes in place, how is she going to fare when she does have her own home? Rather than gaining experience over making decisions herself, even over what CD's she listens to, she has it done for her by rules. Learning to figure out the right thing is far more important than following rules; rules aren't always right, as any xJW can tell you.

  Anyway; happy child rearing.

  Oh, as for what I'd consider unsuitable... well, I just burnt 'Little Earthquakes' for my 14 year old; she and her sister love it almost as much as the Beatles. I did think about leaving 'Me And A Gun' off it - primarily because of my ex-wife JW reation, but though better of it. Do Alanis Morrisette and Tori strike you as violent, b-t-w? I think I'll leave 'Happiness in Servitude' until they're a bit older though...

  If I found out she was listening to music/reading books/watching films that promoted misogyny, homophobia, racism et. al., I would really want to engage her in debte about it. I've always had really good results with actually discussing things without knowing in advance I'm going to not care what her opinion is in advance as I'm so right.

  But 'angry' music? You may as well ban 'unhappy music' on the basis it's unhealthy for your kids.