Bulger killers release - just? (page 2)

Roamingfeline

What was it Dan Akroyd used to say on Saturday Night Live after one of Jane Curtain's obviously Ignorant diatribes? Oh yes, I remember now.

Jan, that was possibly the most ignorant post I have ever seen regarding criminal behavior. I can recall when my BIL committed suicide at the age of 23. My daughter Jaime was 5 years old at the time, and she very well knew what his death meant! She comprehended it very well, and deeply grieved with the rest of us. But then again, she's a very intelligent girl.

I find your attitude in this typical of the Australian's I have come in contact with. They totally mollycoddle the criminals down here, and punish the victims for defending themselves. This mentality IMO is just plain SICK.

I think they should have incarcerated those boys for the rest of their lives, without parole. As Francoise said, their personalities were already set when they committed the act. I don't think 8 years in a juvenile facility has done anything to change that. It more than likely made them better criminals, not better citizens. I hope they have to look over their shoulder for the rest of their lives, and their parents too.

RCat

Seeker

Hmmm...I see my comments are being ignored and the same fallacies are being repeated even after I point out how they are fallacies. Fine, think what you wish to think. Kill 'em all and let God sort them out. That'll show 'em! That's the American way!

Disgusting...

Roamingfeline

Seeker, I was not ignoring you or your post. I was writing my post while you were writing yours, and I stopped to eat breakfast before I sent mine in. However, I don't agree with you. So sue me.

RCat

Seeker

RCat,

Ah, a response, thank you! So what do you disagree with? Do you feel:

a) That our personalities are irrevocably set at age three and there is nothing that can be done about it for all time?

b) That is is possible to know the minds of the killers in this case, and thus pass judgment on them from afar?

c) That it is a complete impossibility for these persons to be productive members of society someday. Not even the slightest chance this could happen, no matter the circumstance?

d) The way to make it up to the family who loses a loved one is to kill thier killers?

Just curious which of those statements reflects your feelings and, more importantly, why?

Roamingfeline

Seeker,

I will answer your questions, but I do want to point out, that WHY I feel the way I do isn't under question here. It's an inalienable right for me to have an opinion on any given subject, and I don't have to justify it to you or anyone else. Just so we have that straight, k?

a) That our personalities are irrevocably set at age three and there is nothing that can be done about it for all time?

I do believe, based on previous studies done, that by the age of five our basic personality traits are already set, yes. There may be a few minor changes in behavior due to free will, but basic personalities are pretty much set.

b) That is is possible to know the minds of the killers in this case, and thus pass judgment on them from afar?

I don't presume to read their minds or pass judgement on their present mind set, Seeker. I do say, based on what their actions were, and the crime they committed, that they should NEVER be turned loose again. I don't think they have a right to freedom. They lost that right IMO when they murdered that little boy. No matter what their mind set is today, what they did in the past IMO was severe enough to lose their entire right to freedoms.

c) That it is a complete impossibility for these persons to be productive members of society someday. Not even the slightest chance this could happen, no matter the circumstance?

I'm not saying they COULDN'T be productive members of society. What I said is that IMO they lost the right to be, whether they could or not is not under question. It's whether they should have that right, and I personally don't think they should!

d) The way to make it up to the family who loses a loved one is to kill thier killers?

If the children were adults when they committed this heinous crime ( and you seem for forget the victim here) then yes, I do believe they should have to give up their lives for what they did. Since they were children when they committed this crime, and I do believe still that they knew what they were doing, they just weren't legally liable as an adult would be, I believe they should be incarcerated for the rest of their lives. Period. I believe crimes should have consequences, and severe crimes should have severe consequences. If you want to be a bleeding heart for the criminals, by all means, feel free. But I will not be.

RCat

Live as you will wish to have lived when you are dying.

-- Christian Furchtegott Gellert

Edited to fix my smiley...

Cautious

I seem to be able to think of this only as a mother. I wouldn't want those 2 walking any streets my chidren were on. I have no way of knowing if those 2 murderers are reformed or not, but I wouldn't want to bet my childrens lives on it. If it were left to me I'd say to keep them in jail - they deprived a little boy of his life in a manner I can only feel is evil.

Perhaps the problem lies with society which does not notice when their young are developing into monsters, but this in no way excuses them, they made their own decisions.

Seeker

RCat,

Thank you for taking the time to express why. Three thoughts:

1. I merely asked you for your reasons, not demanded. So of course you had the right to just express an opinion and nothing else.

2. I have not forgotten the victim of the crime, and nothing I said should have given that impression. That is paramount in my mind. I am capable of keeping the victim and his family in mind while I discuss a societal problem.

3. I am not a bleeding heart liberal. I'm not even an liberal, for that matter. It's easy to pass judgments on others just because you disagree with them. Getting the judgments correct is a much harder matter.

Thank you for expressing your thoughts. I understand your point of view much better.

Francois

Seeker, in the off chance you were also addressing me, I have stated my opinion on the matter and I really don't care to debate it; characterize it as you will. I abandoned long ago the idea that a presentation of facts to a person suffering liberalism was in any way productive, or other than a sheer waste of time. The only way to win that kinda game with a liberal is to refuse to play.

Nothing personal you understand. We seem to have agreed in the past on a number of other topics. 9 outta 10 ain't bad.

Francois

My $0.02

Seeker

Francoise,

I understand your reluctance to discuss what you and I have discussed ad naseum in the past. However, if on the odd chance you were thinking I was suffering from liberalism, you have also made an incorrect assumption about me.

My interest in the subject of capital punishment is on a deeper plane than mere conservative or liberal ideas. You will find I am not as easily categorizable as you may have guessed from my, admitedly few, postings on the subject.

Jang

Didg ..

Jang, i know this wasn't the accident or war you speak of, but they did see the dead for themselves, they were there. So you shoot yourself in the foot by saying that these have no concept of death.

I meant before they did it Didge .... If their only exposure was to TV and video games then they had been desensitised to it as well so even the concept of wrong and right may have been affected. These boys were just at the borderline of being able to always distinguish fantasy from reality also.

Now that may sound like psychobabble to some, but it is according to all research on childhood development.

Sure, we may be able to tell right from wrong at an earlier age, but not always in the same areas. e.g. understanding stealing and lying and consequences comes a lot earlier in life.

IF they are reformed, if they really do understand what they did, their punishment now is worse than incarceration. They can never have a real relationship with their own family again in case they all get caught together, they can not be really free, and this is for life.

We had a 16 year old here who raped and killed a little girl. He was sentened to life. He got out at age 30 on permanant parole. He has never committed another crime since and became a very productive person in society. He cannot bring that little girl back but he has devoted the rmainder of his life to serving others.

Some may call me liberal ....I'm not. I believe that there are some who should either be executed or make to live in death row conditions for the rest of their lives - e.g. McVeigh. But in cases like these boys, or the mother who just killed her five children there I believe needs to be a little mercy mixed with the justice.

Our grand daughter was killed in a car accident caused by a drunk driver. To me what he did is just as much murder since he already knew the consequences of drung driving having killed his mate a few years before in another drunkend incident.

No amount of bitterness toward him would bring my Kahlia back. No amount of punishment of that man would ever pay for her death. That is something I learnt only by experience.

JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/

Bulger killers release - just?

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